Technical In a pickle (I think) with valve spings and hyd flat tappet cam

So helping a buddy out here, let me give you the background:

He bought Ebay ProComp heads.

I had a post about it...so we then clearanced them for the pushrods.

We used some two-stroke mix to see if the valves sealed...1/2 didn't...so off to the shop he went for a valve job.

I went back and port matched the intake gaskets for him...that's when I really looked at the heads

The springs are double springs, quick search on them says could be for roller cam or flat tappet...he doesn't know what he has.

I said heck, best way out is a new set of springs....off to Summit to look at stuff...

So, he has 1.5 (there abouts) diameter springs and what appears to be 1.75 installed height.

I'm going to measure his cam lift on Saturday, I think with the 1.5 RR's he has should be close to .500

Begs the question, I can find any flat tapper springs at his installed hieght to lower the seat and open pressure...everything I find is more for a roller cam.

So...I wonder about a few options...

Pulling the inner spring and breaking in the cam...then putting it back together.
Thoughts?

Are there offset keepers I can use to lower the seat pressure and make the springs a better fit?

Last option I see, is having buy new standard length valves and pushrods and springs and have the valves cut again.

I don't know his spring specs, but say I get 1.75 installed height springs from Comp/etc. with 130lbs seat pressure..use an offset keeper, can I tune the springs correctly?

Engine is a .030 327, without pulling it down (not HAMB friendly in the front of the engine) to pull the cam, I've nothing to go by yet.

I don't want him to eat the cam after it's broke in.

Thanks

 

Flat tappet solid needs 135-140 on the seat and try to stay under 400 over the nose.
Most of the heads as you discribed use pressures in this range for a hydrolic roller witch is fine.
A flat tappet hydrolic should be 110-125 on the seat and up to 300 over the nose depending on profile.
Pac strings has a hot rods series of spring to fit your needs as well as your pressures.
I had more than my share of spring failures ,I use psi or pac and never think twice

 

Good info,

He has flat tappet hydrualic.

I'll do a search for Pac springs and see what pops.

Thanks

 

If you don't see what you need on line ,call tec,they recommended springs they don't list on line more than once for me.so call them,there pretty sharp there.
Just a side note,springs are like lifters,there is only 2-4 places making them,everyone else reboxes
With there name. Pac and psi make there own.second to none with testing and quality control.

 

Thanks Gary,

I found Pac, but they are one the East coast (NC) so emailed them what I was looking for. Probably get a reply tomorrow.

Thanks again!

 

Hey @gary terhaar

We must be neighbors

 

Where did the cam come from? What are you doing for lifters and pushrods?

 

First step before making any changes.

 

Take a couple off and get them checked at installed height and at full lift. 130- 400 seems overkill for a .500 lift sft cam to me.

 

Well, seems he had the motor built about 6-8 years ago.

He doesn't have paperwork on it, with the heads off I see the block was mildly skimmed, not zero-decked, he has flat top with 2 valve relief pistons. Hence I don't think he has a peanut cam in it, I'll get the lift this Saturday.

All I can tell 100% at this time the cam is a hydraulic flat tappet, he has "procomp" 1.5 roller rockers, he has +.100 PR's (Comp hardened) to get the contact pattern correct.

Yes, we pulled the topend off to work on the heads for PR clearance, etc. The front of the engine is Streetrod with the pulley/pump/etc setup, inorder to get the cam out.

I'd rather error on the side of caution and run a proper hyd flat tappet spring and and let him have vlave float, than eat the cam with too much pressure. Yes, I know there is a downside to valve float,,,but we'd find out quickly enough if that was an issue.

 

That's my thinking as well, I wasn't able to find any 1.75 intsalled hight springs that looked suitable for the 110-120 seat pressure.

 

Thing is, shop rate was quoted to him at 90 bucks to check a spring. Summit has a pressure tester for 80 bucks...a new set of springs I was thinking (at the time) was a 100 bucks.

Math says unless his springs are a good match after having the shop test them or buying the tool, it's break even..vs buying the proper set of springs now.

 

At the risk of insulting anyone, is it actually an inner spring or is it a flat wire damper? I have seen a lot of confusion on this issue over the years. If you can't get a spec from the manufacturer, you will need to get them checked just to be safe.

 

Definitely an inner spring, no rotators at all.

 

For compareson 350hp 327 specs 1.66 installed height and 175 lb @ 1.26 From what I have read buy the heads bare and buy quality valves, springs and retainers. Things that steal HP to much spring pressure and to oil pump.

 

To answer one of your questions. Yes they do sell .050 up and down offset keepers. Maybe other offsets also but I have used ,050.

 

Thanks Rich, maybe I'll just get one of those seat pressure things and play with it. Worst case is I have a tool left in the box when I'm gone.

I'll do some googling, but are offest keeper used to spring pressure or lift issues, or both? I've no experience.

 

bathroom scale and a drill press vs $80.

 

Heck, I don't even have a bathroom scale...tossed it years ago...them effers are depressing

 

Have the friend pay half and you pay the other half to buy a $80 tester that you can use in a vice. You do the testing for him and you keep the tool when you are done.

 

Something like these?

https://www.compcams.com/single-outer-valve-springs-1-437-o-d-1-039-i-d-1.html

 

Thise may work, I found my mic for spring height, and will check what he has to be sure on Sunday before work.

Thanks for the link, hopefully the mic he had is off a bit

 

These may even be better for a mild cam.....

https://www.compcams.com/single-outer-valve-springs-1-430-o-d-1-070-i-d.html

 

Good stuff there, I didn't consider going to a smaller diameter spring...once I verify his installed height and get ba look at the pockets, seems he will have more options.

I really wanted to spend his $$ tho...tried to talk him in to pulling things down for a roller cam...he was hip to it, till he saw the cost

 

OK, let him buy new springs and you keep his old ones he can't use. Later on, find someone who can test them or get your own tester and maybe have some decent springs for a future project with a roller............

 

You can get a smaller diameter 1.250" springs, retainers, and locks package quite reasonable at Competition Products that will have the spring pressures you need.
Only thing you need to check is the diameter of the step on the spring locator, to make sure it will fit inside the spring. If not, you'd have to order a new set of spring seat locators too.
https://www.competitionproducts.com...ckage-1250-Dia/productinfo/VSA3/#.XtLRdzOSm70
or
https://www.competitionproducts.com...Spring-Package/productinfo/VSA4/#.XtLU0TOSm70

Or you could measure the OD if the outer step that the spring locates in on the spring retainer for the current springs....if it is less than 1.080" there is a 1.437" diameter single spring Howards sells that would have the pressures you need.
https://www.competitionproducts.com...0-235-1100/productinfo/HRC98411/#.XtLSvTOSm70

And an 1.435" dual spring with the right pressures, if the retainer will fit a 1.055" inner diameter:
https://www.competitionproducts.com...0-320-1180/productinfo/HRC98436/#.XtLTzTOSm70

 

Tomoorrow I'll know a lot more info to start with.

Thanks all!