COE Autocar Build Thread

That quote is quite high. I would have guessed similar to an advanced adapters price around half that.

Anyway, on the 2nd print I think the dimension you need is at the top, the highlighted "SAE flywheel housing mounting face" to "PLANE K". I think in this dwg the flywheel housing/engine is on the left and the trans on the right. I think the 1st bolt up from the centerline is the TC bolt through the flexplate, so that PLANE K is the face of the TC mounting nuts. It even says "must be maintained when installed".

Hope that helps

 

I think you are absolutely right, why didn't I see that? I can't make the 1.351"/1.201" dimension though, I'm at about 1.5" with the TQ shoved all the way into the transmission. My trans had a #3 housing flange, so I'm hoping that's where the discrepancy is.
Thanks a lot for your time!

 

I have had the same thing, another set of eyes helps.

If you are at 1.5, then an adapter ring can take up the difference to make that dim smaller. ***uming I am understanding it right.

I saw the quote had called out a steel adapter, do you need steel or would aluminum work?

 

Once again, you are right about the adapter ring taking up space to correct my dimensional differences.
In my application, the engine has one front mount and two at the flywheel housing, the trans is hung on the flywheel housing with no support on the back of the trans. Because of this I think I need the strength of steel in the relatively thin cross section of the adapter ring.
I'm planning to try to make my own adapter ring. I have some 3/16 stainless steel that I can make the ring out of, drill the 2 bolt circles, dowel it to the flywheel housing, then sweep the inner diameter with a lathe tool mounted to the crankshaft to get perfect size and concentricity. It'll take some time and effort, but I like challenges.

 

Would you be concerned the stainless may crack and fail.

It doesn't like being stressed.

Even mild steel would be stronger and more durable.

 

And easier on the drills and cutters.

 

Zuffen, 304 stainless is a 125ksi material, mild steel is a 60ksi material, this is the same situation as saying a grade 8 bolt isn't any good because it breaks rather than bends, where a grade 2 bolt is better because it bends rather than breaks. Realize that the failure of the grade 8 bolt happens at twice the force of the grade 2 failure.
I don't have the exact formula, but in this application 3/16 stainless is probably equal to 5/16 mild steel and the engineered part in my quote used a 1/8 thick cross section (lip) so I'm more than happy with my free stainless.
As for being harder on drills and cutters, definitely, but I have a drill doctor and I know how to use it!

 

Is the trans centered/located with dowels or the ring? If it is centered with dowels I am not sure that you would need to go to the effort of cutting the ID of the ring insitu.

If you think it would help I could drill a template for you. Not sure what material to use that would be cheap and also dimensionally stable.

I don't recall, do you have a mill?

 

I don't have a mill.
All locating on SAE housings is by rings, so I either have to machine a diameter to match my #2 flywheel housing or drill the 12 holes, bolt it on, then drill and ream dowel pin holes. I don't have a lathe big enough to machine the ring, so I'll go with dowels. I have a good system for laying out hole circles. Then, cutting the ID of the ring insitu makes everything concentric without large machine tools.
I think I will get started on this tomorrow, as I would like to do it before I have the engine ***embled. (no need to be dragging the pistons up and down in their bores for no good reason.

 

Adapter ring is finished! (except for pressing the PEM nuts into the inner bolt circle) It took me the better part of 2 days, but I'm confident that it will do everything the $1282 one would do. The most time consuming part of the job was cutting the center out of the ring. I used the time honored method of drilling a jillion small holes, then cutting between them with a saber saw. Somehow I miss calculated and ended up with an extra 1/8" of material to remove from the inner circle, not something I needed with my hand powered lathe set-up. Note that I used a real lathe toolpost from my little South Bend lathe bolted and clamped to the Detroit flywheel/flexplate

Tomorrow I'll dig the Allison out of the shed and start doing some careful measuring to mate the engine and trans, preliminary measuring shows I'll need about a half inch of spacer between the flywheel and torque converter, then a chunk bolted to the crank (about 2" long) to center the boss on the converter.
I haven't heard anything from my engine builder about my new head and cylinder kits, so this is a good time to get the trans mated to the engine.

 

Called the engine guy today, he asked how soon I needed my parts back, said he'd make it up to me if I could wait a couple of weeks. I have some other things coming up, so I told him 2 more weeks would be OK. He is straight forward about being behind and knew I didn't need the engine right away, so I'm not worried about it.
Thursday was one of those special days in a project when you can realize forward progress. I received a gallon of paint to start the painting process. I have the cab off the frame and the engine out, so it is time to clean and spray the front half of the ch***is along with the engine after I get it ***embled.
Yup, WWII olive drab, it will be a tribute to the only double 5 star general! (2 branches of service)

 

I had to make a fairly sudden trip to New Mexico, (load of furniture for my daughter) then a side trip up into Colorado to see the sights, so am just getting back to everyday life here at home. I had called my engine guy and told him that there was no need for engine parts until this week. He called me today, no wrist pin bushings available for my engine, so I have to get re-manned rods, another $600 and a few more days of waiting. Sounds like a racket to me, instead of selling me a $10 bushing,take an old rod, press out the bushing, press in a new one, ream it, then sell it to me for $100! Time element is OK, but I would like to get this engine back together and out of the middle of my garage, before I forget how to put it together.

 

Not sure if your trans is the same, but here is a new video of a shop rebuilding a series 2000 trans. They might have more info on mating it to your engine. Starts around 3 min mark.

 

Hey, thanks! I think I am all set to bolt the engine and trans together, but it is always good to have more information. I have to put the engine back together first, then I can bolt them together. I will be cleaning and painting the front half of the frame and front suspension this weekend. Hopefully the last of the engine parts will be in on Monday, so I can start ***embling the engine Tuesday. I am so ready to get the engine back in the frame and get the cab re-mounted. Then it will be firewood season!

 

Ha, wife had other ideas for the weekend! It was too hot so we spent the weekend cruising in our Triumph Spitfire.
Today was a special day in the life of the project, I finally shot some color at the frame and front suspension. I wire wheeled everything to get the rust and dust off, then shot a coat of KBS Rustseal, then the od green over the top. Engine parts got a coat of buzzbomb primer then the od green.

 

I got the engine and trans set in yesterday, and the truck is in the garage for the first time in almost 3 years. (did some cleaning and painting in my storage shed this past month.
I stabbed the trans onto the engine on the first try, so my home made adapters must be right! ( I dial indicated every thing first to make sure) I chose to set the engine in the frame as a short block, so I didn't have as much weight to deal with. Still mighty heavy with the trans attached.


Hope to have it running sometime in September!

 

Well, running in September didn't happen! Years ago, when I blew up the engine, pieces of piston or exhaust valve went through the turbo, so I am waiting on funds for a new turbo, before I can run the engine.
I also have been warned to follow the break-in directions, so I am going to have to have the truck driveable before I can run it much. I also don't have any idea how I'm going to work it that hard for that long in a freshly ***embled vehicle. ( don't know if I can make the transmission shift properly)

Otherwise I have the engine all ***embled, have raised the rear motor mounts to get better road clearance under the trans. I didn't think 7" was enough with the oil pan unprotected. after some work I now have 11" which I'm happy with. I still have to do all the plumbing (fuel lines, trans cooler hoses, external oil lines and coolant hoses) before I can remount the cab. I should be able to get this done by spring, then I'll worry about starting the engine when I can work on it outside in spring.
3 steps forward, 2 steps back, was that a squirrel?
BTW, I also made about 20 cords of firewood in September and October, so I haven't been laying around all the time.

 

very interesting dilemma... Dyno maybe to simulate 50-100 miles loaded??

 

Yeah, that's a tough one, you won't have any room for error or really fixing much if it needs to be continuous running with load. That will be a bunch of fuel too.

I agree with a dyno. It might be worth the money to do the break in on an engine dyno so you will have just the engine to worry about at that time.
If you can't find an engine dyno, I wonder if you could find and use a tractor dyno, would have to make an adapter to a pto maybe?

 

I really don't want to pull the engine and take it to an engine dyno, but the PTO idea is intriguing. I've got neighbors with irrigation pumps that might do the job if I could get one mounted on my frame. (the bed is going to have to come off sometime anyway)

 

pull the engine?? I meant a dyno that takes the entire truck, rear wheels on the rolly things, strapped down, etc....

 

I'm sorry, mcgiver said engine dyno. I'll have to look around to see what it would cost to put it on a ch***is dyno. I've also heard that an exhaust brake will help keep cylinder pressure and temp high enough to do the magic during normal driving. I've got some time to get it figured out!

 

It's been a month since the last update and I've gotten a few things done. The engine is all ***embled and all new external oil and fuel lines plus coolant hoses are all installed. Once that was all done it was time to remount the cab, then I started making fenders for the front wheels.


I still have to blend the rear of the fender to the sleeper and figure something out for a step in the front and I'll be working on that tomorrow.


When I get the fronts done, I will be redoing the rears in the same style. the fenders I made from trailer fenders just don't look quite right to me. (remember this is supposed to look like an army truck)

 

Y'know that frustration where you're trying to explain your vision to others and it just doesn't connect.
Then you demonstrate it to a level where they go "AH! Now I see it!"
That's where I am with your truck, now.
Okay, yeah, that's cool! Full steam ahead, man!
JML

 

Many moons ago (late 1970's) I was a contract Designer/Draftsmen at White Motors in Eastlake, Ohio. One of my most rewarding projects was the pit fender design for the new Corporate Cab Autocar Construcktor II. Your fender design reminded me of that project. We used diamond plate like yours. I had to interface with the new ****erfly hood and radiator shell. I did all mounting brackets and headlight mounting and wiring harness routing. It was a very robust design with front fender bracket weldment made from structural TEE The rear mounting brackets a seamless extruded tube weldment. Design, Detail, and help prototype ***embly .I will try to find a pic I have of the prototype I worked on that was sold to the CLE airport for snow removal.

 

I looked at the Autocar Construcktor fenders and chose to use diamond plate because Autocar did, plus I like the rough and tough look. (it just looks right on an army truck) I looked all over the internet for any cab-over with pit fenders to get ideas of what others had done, but none found.
HJmaniac, kicking around the Cleveland area, have you ever run into a fellow called Junk Man Dan? (Dan Renovetz) I know that at one time he worked in the City of Cleveland Garage.
JML, These fenders are a new idea, originally I had a pair of Studebaker car fenders that I had mocked up, but those didn't fit with the army theme. (Damn, this was more than 3 1/2 years ago)

 

This is the Autocar Construcktor II prototype with new pit fender design I worked on That was sold to Cleveland for snow removal at CLE airport. Note the mounting the Structural TEE bracket/brace weldment near the center of the fender. Also there is slight damage to the leading edge of the fender.

 

I met and talk with Dan Renovetz a lot of years ago when I was a member of the ATHS and tme Vintage White Truck ***ociation (now defuncted). He had a early '50s GMC firetruck that he was going to convert to something? A very nice fellow as I recall.

 

Wolfcreek you said "I still have to blend the rear of the fender to the sleeper and figure something out for a step in the front and I'll be working on that tomorrow."

I don't want to **** in but I was wondering something like a White 3000 front step might work for you.

 

I'm always open to ideas, so you're not ****ing in. On the white 3000's, they seem to have the step tied to both the bumper and the fender. I haven't decided on a bumper yet, so that will be something to think about. Most of the WWII military trucks used a stock civilian bumper or a fairly simple channel iron bumper. For simplicity, the channel iron type, notched and bent to conform to the shape of the cab is probably my first choice, but I also like these modern oilfield pick-up bumpers.