steel beam strength/weight question (engine pulling beam)

hi, guys.

anyone out there know about weight and/or strength of steel I-beams? i don't know the nomenclature of beams, but here's what i'm talking about:

top & bottom flanges are 6.75 " wide and 3/8" thick;
center web is 8" tall and 1/4" thick.

actually total beam height is 8", not just the web.

anyone know the weight/foot of this beam?

i'm working on obtaining a 30 foot beam to install at ceiling height in my 30' wide shop. i've got a trolley and chain hoist to use with it.

is this beam strong enough to pull an engine/****** at the center? ***uming that the heaviest engine/****** combo i'd pull would be, what, a thousand pounds or so?

how heavy will this muther be? i gotta figger out if i can get it up in the air, too. i think i've got it scoped out by lifting one end a foot or so, blocking it up, doing the other end the same, and doing this end to end 'til it's at the desired height. OR, maybe i can do a temporary wood post at each end and use two come-alongs. ***uming it's within the capacity of the come-alongs.

any information or opinions?

 

that exact size is not in my book, but by judging from the beam sizes imediately above and below I would guess it would have a weight of about 30 pounds per foot.

I'd have to ask one of the engineers here about load, but think at a thirty foot span you may be pushing it to pick a thousand pounds.

Paul

 

Wide flange I-beam 8" x 6 1/2" ,w/ 1/4" web, is 24.0 lbs per foot.

 

what books you guys getting this info from?

trey

 

This is from the Stock & Referance Guide that I got from a local steel supplier.
It lists commercially available tubes,flat stock,and sheets,in Steel and Aluminum,and gives the weight per foot of each.Saves designing around a size that doesn't exist.I imagine the Machinery Handbook has similar info.

Atch:
If you search online for a "beam deflection calculator",you should be able to figure out if it's strong enough.I suspect it will need additional supports.

 

ah, ok.

ive got the machinery handbook, and was going to look to see if i could find it, but its packed in a box right now.

trey

 

an opinion...my neighbor put a big*** steel I beem in the ceiling of his garage, it has a couple posts supporting it along the span. He was originally gonna use it with a chain hoist, but he just uses a normal cherry picker engine hoist instead.

I would consider it to be a waste of time to install an I beam in the ceiling of a shop, seems I'm always dragging my cherry picker all over the place to pick up engines, but never at the center of the building.

this opinion is probably worth at least what you paid for it.

 

I got one of the young engineers here working on it

I told him the beam size, aprox. W 8x28, and ***ume vertical load at the bottom flange on Y axis mid span of a 30' length supported at both ends.

Paul

 

Excellent questions. When I bought my beam they said it was 26lbs per foot. It's about 8" wide, 12" tall, around 3/8" thick and it is spanning 33'. It carries my whole upstairs and I pick up heavy stuff with my chain hoist on it. What would this thing be rated at in the center? I've been reeeeeeal curious about this.

I have 7" diamter posts on the ends with 1/2" thick flanges welded to the top and bottom. When I bought it from the local s**** yard, he asked what I was doing. I told him and he said, "Now, that's what I call over-kill!" I told him I'd sure sleep good at night when there's 3ft of snow on the roof. It's the first thing people notice when the come into my garage, "Do you think your beam is big enough?" Like I said, I would like to know more facts though. "Looking" strong isn't cutting it for me...

 

squirrel - i've got a pretty nice "fold-up" cherry picker that does everything i need. i just think it would be cool to pull an engine with the chain hoist and roll the trolley over to the side of the shop and lower the engine down to an engine stand.

besides, it also would be useful for picking up heavy stuff from a pick-up bed and then driving out from under it. the bottom of the beam will be a little over ten feet above the floor and the overhead door into the shop is 10' x 10'. also would make loading heavy stuff easier.

not something i "really need", but something i'd like to do.

everyone - thanx for the info so far. please keep watching and inputting.

60's - i hope your young gun is working on this 'cause i'm really anxious to see the capabilities of the beam out in the middle.

everyone - i've thought of temporary 4x4 posts under the beam when i'm pulling an engine, but that would prolly eliminate the possibility of rolling a load over to the side of the shop on the trolley. if i have to put up temporary posts i'll just keep on using the cherry picker. unless maybe one temporary post, say ten feet from one wall and twenty feet from the other wall would let me use the twenty foot side to roll stuff back and forth.

opinions or information on that idea?

 

if it turns out to be just barely within your minimum expected load rating you may want to only put that same capacity hoist on it and even mark the beam so you don't over load it to failure by accident.

of course load capacity will increase the further you move the load from center.
I would guess the deflection at ten feet from an end post will be a LOT more than at center

I am going to put one in my shop one of these days too, I have it all stacked up out in the parking area, just need to put down the toys long enough to do it.

mine will have a traveling beam, all beams are W12s and will have a 2000 pound rating. I should be able to pick a car apart, engine, body, frame and move pieces anywhere in a 30x30 footprint.

Paul

 

atch,

my mechanics of materials book is at work. if you send an email to eburger@idexcorp.com i'll figure it out for you on monday.


ed

 

I don't have my books, but a W8x28 should have a section modulus of around 25. It will have an allowable bending stress of 21,600. Sf=M so the allowable bending moment is 540,000. Figuring M for the dead weight of the beam M=wl**2/8 = 28/12*360**2/8= 37,800 This leaves M of 502,200. Since M=Pl/4 for a point load at the center P= 5580# Apply a safety factor of at least 2 and P=2790#. Deduct 300# for the hoist and you still get enough to pick an engine.

 

what about a length of railway track? should be able to get that stuff for free or next to nothing

 

Atch,

what about building a "truss" type structure attached on the top of the beam?

it is above my design capabilities,but if some engineering types are gonna' eyeball it,run that by them.
seems to me that would spread the load out over a wider area,(transferring
it more towards your supports),maybe even build it with some "crown" in the beam.
you know,like the crown on the rafters on a stick built roof structure.

hope this helps.

 

Surely You are thinking of "hang "mounting it thru the center of the building right........say where its no open/unsuspended beam span of more than 8 feet?
the trolley would run on the bottom flange and not both right?
Whichever -Id say its heavy enough if the beam is supported at about every 8-10 feet from above. IF NOT it will definitely bend the beam.
If you ever sawa 30 foot one picked up in the center with a forklift you'd know what I mean.........

 

I though you had a Mechanical Engineer there at the VA? Or was that just a temporary deal when they put that last addition on?

 

unfortunately he had to get back to work before he had a chance to work out total deflection, then I had to go too.

you'll probably have it by then but we will try again Monday.

Paul

 

there's a beam deflection calculator at

http://www.aps.anl.gov/asd/me/Calculators/ElasticBeam2.html

using some numbers from my old mech of materials book, it looks like the beam will sag close to 1/4" from it's own weight, and another 1/4" from the weight of an engine being hoised at the center. but I may have the numbers wrong, so try it yourself.

it's been, oh, 25 years since I actually had to understand this stuff!

 

ok, the kid did his homework over the weekend.

he explained it in detail, most of which went in one ear and out the other but here is a copy of his calculations and if you can see it and understand the process you can follow his math.

bottom line is that using a safety factor of 2 and ***uming this is older ASTM A36 steel which has a lower strength than newer ASTM A992 or ASTM A572
and max load at center of 30' W 8x28 beam supported at both ends...

your beam will fail at 4,860 lbs load.

Paul

 

what he did not do was calculate deflection,

you will see the beam sag with loads less than the 4,800+ lbs. but the beam will return to original shape with no load.

hope this helps.

Paul

 

If you don't have a huge shop and floor space is at a premium, this is the amount of floor space that I lose. I wouldn't build a shop without one. I can only drool over your hugh buildings.

 

60's,

thanx man. and thanx to your cohort who did the calcs. i didn't even bother to look closely at his calcs; i had several cl***es thirty-something years ago that tried to teach me what he was doing, but even if i knew what was going on then i've forgotten it all by now.

this is great news. my chain hoist is rated at one ton and my trolley is also rated at one ton. sounds like the beam has a safety factor of two (and then some) over the equipment that i'll hang from it. so if i never try to pick up anything heavier than an engine/****** combo i should be in tall cotton...

 

Usin that beam deflection calculator web page again, with:

E = 29,000,000

I = 97.8

l = 360

a = b = 180

P = 1000

and loading scheme 4

results in deflection of 0.34

so that should mean that a simply supported W8x28 beam 30 feet long with a 1000 lb load at the center should deflect about 5/16" at the center.

 

thanx all. i guess if i'd listened in those strength of materials cl***es i could have figured this out for myself.

i can live with 5/16" deflection; especially if it's not going to fail until i get nearly 2 1/2 tons suspended from it.

and i know i can raise a 720# beam 11' in the air, specifically just lifting 360# at a time.

THANX AGAIN!

 

I have a 24' span that we want to install an I beam for engine pulling. It needs to be put in place with 2 sections 12 foot long with posts on each end of the 24 foot span because of the accessibility to the area. My question is what would the specs be for the I beam under a 1000 lb roof load and 2000 lb engine/****** load? The two 12 foot sections will be put together with a top plate and bolts and the center will be welded.

 

You would just need two temp. posts or maybe just one.

With one put it just outside the load and away from the wall you want to roll towards. That way your beam would appear much shorter to the load.

With two you could put one in and roll towards it till you got to it. Then put one in right behind the load and take out the other one and move the load on down.

c ya, Sum

 

If you really intend to try and use two pieces and splice them with no support under the splice a bottom plate is way more important than the top plate.

The top of the beam is going to be in "compression" and will be trying to push the joint together at the top.

Break a stick and you will see this in action as the bottom tears apart first.

The bottom of the beam is going to be in "tension" and will be trying to pull the joint apart, so you need the plate there. That is why re-bar is more important at the bottom of a concrete beam. The re-bar keeps the concrete from being torn apart. Concrete is great under compression so steel on that side is not so important.

It there a reason you don't use a single length beam??

c ya, Sum

 

It there a reason you don't use a single length beam??

I couldn't get it inside with the available accessibility to the area. The I beam will only be replacing the ceiling joist in a span of approx 14 feet and this will be offset from the center of the garage (the ridge). It will be located approximately 1/2 way between the outside wall and the ridge. So the 1000 lb roof load is probably overkill.

 

here's a link to another beam thread...

beam me up