32 Ford Welled Fenders, what holds the wheel? PICS ADDED

My '32 has welled fenders, but also has the rear mount spare. I have a few questions about this:

1. Could these cars have came with 3 spares or is it more realistic that someone changed the fenders?

2. Does anyone have pictures of what holds the spare wheel on the fenders? I see a hole in the fender where a piece would mount, but do not know what it would look like.

Thanks
Vinnie

 

Sounds like the two front fenders were a recent add on. No factory new car had 3 spair tires. There is a forged bracket that attached to the chassis to hold the wheel in place. It is all personal opinion but side mount spairs look odd to me, the just brake up the flow of body & fender lines.

 

I do not claim to know a LOT about 32 Fords ...
But I believe the fenders could have been changed ( added ) .

Ford made a bracket that held the tire/rim
It bolts thru the fender and to the frame.
Ford made BOTH a Right side and a Left side.







I do not have a photo of the brackets but they show up on that auction site fairly regular.

 

My Sport Coupe came with dual side mounts and like the phaeton above, a luggage rack. It's just my opinion but I believe that the dual side mounts were more of a fashion statement to mimic the Buick's and Packard's of the day. Notice that mine has no cowl lights because of the side mounts. Dual side mounts are pretty rare.

If your car came with either or both side mounts there should be 2 holes in the side of the body 1" behind the rear of the hood roughly 1/2 way between the bottom of the body and the belt line molding. If they were filled over the years look for signs of the holes behind the kick panel. The fender doesn't touch the wheel. A bracket off of the frame holds the wheel with an arm that goes from it to the holes in the body with a 3/8" piece inside the body that is drilled and tapped for the bolts through the arm.

 

Tommy,

So the holes should actually be in the body on the cowl sides? It does not look like there were ever holes in that location. As you can see there are round holes on the fenders, are they for the bracket as well?

I am not sure, but the paint actually looks original on the car and I can not see any patchwork.

Here are some pics of each side:

 

this is not a ford- but a hudson I would think they would be similar.

 

What??? Pics shown are of my '32 Ford.

I am looking for pics of a 32 with the spare tire off the car so I can see the bracket setup.

 

Yep right in the cowl.

 

what holds the wheel...

 

The triangular piece at the upper left has 3 wheel studs pointing away from the camera that the wheel bolts onto with regular lug nuts.




Ford made a special locking hub cap. You flipped up a stainless cover (the V8 in the blue circle on a 32) and unlocked it with a key so that you could get to the lug nuts underneath. They were pricey 30 years ago. There is another arm not shown that goes from this piece to the above mentioned holes in the body as a brace.

 

There is an eyelet in the stem just behind the flange that connects to the other forged rod that attaches to the hole in the cowl.

 

Bought a complete set of irons for both sides on E-Bay, now just need the fenders. One thing no one mentioned is the firewall was special as it had a threaded plate along the edge that attachs to and angle piece that sets against the cowl for the outside bracket to bolt against and sandwich the cowl sheet metal without crushing it. Other part of the main bracket attachs to the frame.

 

I won't be drilling holes in the body. May leave the fenders on without spare wheels there or replace with the correct fenders.

I am not close to that point yet so the decision can wait a while.

 

Sorry about that my pic didnt load. I know you have a ford just wanted to show U a pic of this setup.

 

Looks like you and krylon can swap fenders and be happy, if he has the non-side spare fenders that is...

 

A swap would be a great option.

I do not consider myself an authority. So take all of this with a serious grain of salt. But, over the years I have been exposed to the side mount debate. Sometimes rather heated. This is a somewhat distilled version of how I see it.

There are some practical and aesthetic considerations for ther fender mounted spare.

In addition to nuts and bolts, and what is correct or available. The the fender mounted spare provides great mounting point for dual rear view mirrors. Most folks are not running them. Thus, the side mounted spare may be a method to allow the car to stand out.

As for aesthetic considerations, the spare tends to break up the fender running board line and visually shorten the car. This consideration is similar to a optimum ride height, blackwall versus whitewall, and body colors. It seems that the whole package should be considered.

Vintageride

 

Thanks for reminding me. The firewall is the same except for these added holes. There is a half round piece with threaded holes that fits in this recess to act as a nut to catch the bolts from inside. They reinforce the cowl sheet metal so it doesn't flex. I do remember being surprised at the sheer number of pieces that are necessary for the side mounts if you are doing a restoration.

One of my best Deuce fenders has patch panels that fills the old well and bracket hole. It was done by someone over 40 years ago and they never metal finished the underside.

 

I don't see that hole in my firewall (pic below) so I think it's safe to say these fenders where not original to this car. I like the rear spare so that will have to do. The fenders are super nice originals so not sure if I want to replace them or not.

 

In my opinion .... welled fenders are less desirable ( $ $ $ ) than the non welled fenders. I have owned a BUNCH of 1932 Ford original fenders ...



IF you could trade your nice welled fenders for a set of nice non welled fenders ... it would be a step up.

The fact that the welled fenders are NOT original to your Fordor ... and nice paint is not a issue ... A trade will be GOOD IMHO

And NO ...
I do not have any fenders that I am trying to trade you

 

I have heard the welled fenders are worth more as they are more rare for restorers of original cars to find nice ones. I have not decided what to go yet and I have no idea the value of these fenders. Would love to know approximate value?

Also what do original non-welled fenders go for in nice shape?

 

The welled fenders have no value in the hotrod world other than as trading material to those in the restorer world who are dolling up a Fordor, Roadster or Cabriolet, maybe even a Victoria.
BUT, if they are really nice and a trade for comparable condition non-welled fenders isn't happening, you might be happy to cut out the well, and patch the holes to make a pair of really nice fenders from what you have.

My point is YOU should not accept anything not as nice as what you have in trade because YOU have the rarer fenders and THEY want 'em.

 

Good original 32 Ford non welled fenders will bring more than a set of new Brookvilles ( to most folks ... myself included ). Brookvilles are 12 hundred a set ... last I heard.

There has been a set of nice welled 32 Ford fenders on the Fordbarn V8 swap meet quite a few times ... for about a grand. NO takers ... The problem with welled fenders is that as a general rule ... only restorers want them ... and most of those guys are very frugal ... They remeber when complete 32 Fords were less than 12 hundred dollars ( much less ).

Go to Carnut photo site http://www.carnut.com/photo/list/flist.html
... select Ford ... then 1932
Then look at at ALL the 32's there ( thousands ) and try to find a set of welled fenders. Possibly less than 1 per cent are equipped with them.

Also factor in all the extra brackets and stuff ... required and you will see that is WHY a lot of guys DO NOT use them.

They were not even available on the 32 3W coupes ... ( the doors would not open ... hitting the spares ).

 

I bought the complete set of side mount irons with the idea of putting them on my deuce delivery after remembering a drawing Thom Taylor did many years ago of a delivery sitting right with small diameter tires buried in the well. I have found several nice sets of welled fenders priced 700/1000 dollars but the owners require customer pickup, I'm not driving to the east or west coast for a set of fenders. Deuce Roadster is right they don't bring as much as unwelled fenders, and are not as rare as you might think because not many people use them. I will probably use Brookville fenders on the delivery and sell the irons. Just thought it would be cool with the winter front and 25 louver hood. Am I turning into a (gasp) dreaded restorer?

 

Isn't this an oxymoron? A Pines grille to close off the airflow and more louvers to let it out?

No info to add to this thread about welled fenders other than to say I have seen (and a HAMBer currently owns) a 3 window with dual sidemounts. But, it was a hotrod so the smaller diameter tires may have made the difference. And there's cool story about that coupe and how it was found in California.

 

You are right. What the hell! But with duece parts (when you got em flaunt em) Haven't I seen a yellow 3 window for many years with dual mts?

 

The drivers side is the one that the few remaining original restorers are seeking the most. The pass. side was readily available on the commercial models. Years ago when I got started the restorers set the market values. Things have changed. The people that want a 32 exactly like it came from the factory are mostly dead or past their car restoring days. Hotrodders are setting the market today. I felt lucky to find someone to pay good money for my dual welled fenders that included all the brackets and the little pieces that have been mentioned. That was over 10 years ago. Supply and demand. The supply has remained pretty much the same but the demand has changed. Fewer restorers and more hotrodders (with the cash) IMHO

 

There are also two sizes of wells. The big trucks had a larger wider well. I have a pair of the larger ones and they fit a little fatter tire. I have also collected all the mounting hardware for both sides.

 

Vinnie,

Before you let go of those fenders (at least both of them) ask yourself where do you put the luggage with people sitting in the back seat? I found a "Karrie Keen" (sp?) trunk for mine and bought a welled fender. Note that there was an early version of the fender tire mounting hardware (although the later hardware would work) and your car looks early from the photos you posted. I got my early hardware from "Baxter's Ford Parts" ((785) 842-9256) several years ago. There were also early and late fenders dealing with the width of the shelf where the horn mounts. Since the parts all cost about the same you might as well spend a little more time and get the correct ones. Please post the serial number of your car (X out the last 3 digits). Clues to an early car are sun visors mounting in the center instead of on the ends, hood hooks with one leg instead of a T shape (yours have the T shape but I assume they were replaced when the fenders were replaced), a boss on the side of the engine block for mounting the vacuum assisted clutch (which was never produced), the deep (compared to later) indention in the firewall for the vacuum assisted clutch (which shows in your photos), the shape of the recess in the brake backing plates, the bend of the headlight bar was increased outward to keep the bar from hitting the grill and the pull cable starter switch instead of the later floor mounted switch. I probably missed a few and there were a few more related to the extremely early cars. Did you get a copy of the 1932 Ford book by Dave Rehor yet?

Charlie Stephens

 

If needed, I have a nice original sidemount and the L bracket that bolts to the cowl and firewall to support the weight of the tire.

 

Can anyone supply photos of the bracket and how it is mounted? Photos above have been deleted. Thanks