My guess it is that it had a subframe grafted, they are always too wide, take a look where the wheels sit in relation to the fenders and how much wider the front track looks. Granted it has really wide front wheels. Look how that blue 40 sedan sits and looks using Dropped axle, big difference in making it look right. Plus a properly set up beam axle will ride and handle great. Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
A very high proportion of grafted suspensions are butchery. Do it right as you have already been advised and you will be happy. Otherwise don't come back asking why your chassis swapped car operates like crap. Also, subframed, clipped and otherwise late model suspension swaps are of topic here.
X38 said it all. More often than not a car that has been IFS subframe clipped (not just a Mustang II crossmember, but the whole front frame cut and grafted) is a rather crude deal. If that one is a nice job, then more power to ya. But if you aren't really familiar with early hot roddery then maybe you should have an experienced eye look it over first.
Having had several 40’s I think that you may be headed down the wrist no road. Based on the front tire location on your donor I think that an updated beam axle might be a better option for you. Posting Some better pictures of the donor suspension would help. There is a good deal of good info available here on the HAMB and you would be wise to take advantage of it. Hopefully you realize that your title for your 40 is based on the serial number stamped on your frame rail.
that donor car does not appear to have a mustang II front end on it. That means it’s some type of subframe. I have yet to drive a subframeed car that drove as good as what was original. If it is mustang II, don’t think that is an upgrade. It’s not. It will not be any better(in my opinion it makes it worse) for steering and driving, and yes I have owned and driven both. Hell the last time I put a mustang II in a 40 sedan, I tried to talk the guy out of it, he woildnt listen. He came back 2 years later and I put a stock front in back in it. Literally all you need is a new front spring and split the wishbones. The amount of time it would take to do that is less than what it will take to get the body off that chassis. A frame swap with a subframe on it is the absolute worst way to solve your problem. Also that subframed car no longer has the numbers on the frame let alone don’t match the title the one you want to fix. A stock 40 front end, with a good spring and wishbones split will drive and steer like it has power steering. My 39 does.
Also splitting the wishbones on a 40 does not mean it bolts to the side of the frame. The will not be near your headers. You just spread them enough to clear the trans. The still bolt to the bottom of the frame. Just off tabs on the bottom, not on the side of the frame rail.
This and a pair of tie rod ends and bungs to weld to the wishbones for the tie rod ends is all you need to split the wishbone. Available from a Hamb Member right now. Here is the link to his add. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/35-to-40-ford-trans-mount-tunnel-stiffener.1202283/
Looking closely at the photos, that Deluxe has been clipped. Having tried to repair cars like that, I wouldn't change the chassis either. As has been stated, you may have lost the VIN on that frame, which will cause licensing headaches. Rebuilding what you have will be much easier and you will be much happier in the long run. My 40 has a dropped axle in it, and I wouldn't change it to and IFS, even though I manufacture them.
As others have said, the chassis swap is a step down the wrong path. I must also admit, when I see poor quality wiring in plain view (like the engine bay photos), I question the overall workmanship...especially areas that can not readily be seen. Good luck, I hope you take the good advice that has been provided. It has been given with the best of intentions for you, your family, and your project.
Again, Thank you all for your feedback... each one is appreciated. I spent the better part of yesterday under the "Donor"... and after assessing the option of a chassis swap, I decided against it. I am going back to plan-A... going to replace the leaf spring and shocks then see where that places the wishbone. In current configuration, I cannot split the wishbone because the fenderwell exhaust runs under the frame rails to the center of frame.(see images). My short term goal is to get the wishbone off the ATF pan and drive the car for a few months. I know it is possible... This car was built decades ago and someone drove it for decades until the front suspension sagged. My long term goal is to replace the heavy BBC with something lighter and more efficient... at that point the exhaust will be re-routed and option to split wishbone will be considered.
Just as another quick comment...re-routing the exhaust pipes a few inches is not a big deal. Again, good advice has been given on how to get your car sitting and driving right (including which vendor has the necessary pieces). With a little effort your car will be very enjoyable (and you could very likely even keep your big block...which no doubt will save some money and effort overall). Oh yeah...good work on arriving at your decision not to proceed with the chassis swap.
I want to thank all you guys as well, I'm about to start on my 40 tudor soon. I want mine to sit like Bigmac48's
I would not let the location of some exhaust tubing dictate the engineering of my suspension. Exhaust tubing is lightweight, cheap and and relocatable. Any muffler shop should have that minor issue dealt with in short order.
Looking at your pictures, the wishbone when split will clear your exhaust,as it runs outside then heads toward the center, after, the transmission mount. The issue I see, is that the plate where the cup mounts, is cut/clearanced for the Turbo 400 pan. You may be able to cut clearance in the split wishbone plate, to do the same thing. Maybe someone has a template of the mount that you could get, and hold up in place to see how it would fair?
Exhaust is dictating nothing. I am choosing not to modify exhaust now because I intend to change powertrain in the future.... at that time, I will build my exhaust, don't need an exhaust shop for that. It makes no sense to modify exhaust now as a temporary solution. The car was operated for decades with the wishbone clearing the TH400... another 6 months will be fine.
Alright... I'm gonna say it again... I do not desire to split the wishbone at this time... I'm sure the car will run & drive with a whole wishbone... it's been on there for 81 years, and operated with the TH400 for decades.
Correct, rerouting exhaust is not a big-deal... but it would be redundant. Not sure why y'all insisting the first thing I should do is split the wishbone? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Splitting the wishbone, so it moves them outward on each side until they are under the X-members, makes the room necessary for you transmission. If you check my build thread (the link is on my signature) post #9 there are pictures that show what to do and how it makes more room for your transmission. Splitting the bones has been done by hotrodders to make clearance for probably close to 75 years. As for moving the exhaust pipe being redundant, you have a problem with your car, many on this board are more than willing to help you by offering the kind of advice that only comes with many years of experience, whether you take it is up to you. Oh yeah, and the guys with those years of experience are offering assistance and advice at no cost. It's a pretty good deal really.
I understand how "splitting the wishbone" works... but doing that first to accommodate the collapsing engine mounts and sagging suspension is not my idea of doing it right. I am going to get the springs/shocks and powertrain mounts up to snuff, then see if mods to the wishbone are necessary. Nonetheless, thank you for the link to your build... a lot of helpful info and illustrations there.
@P Green, you're right to replace the deteriorating parts first. Then you can see what the next moves are, if any. Most of the suggestions, are to give you insight, so that you can combine your repairs with other upgrades, that you may desire.
P green ,spoony, one step at a time , lots of good suggestions ,mine drives and sits like it does because of Dale at weedet'r experience , experteice ,and attention to detail, he not only has the experience as I stated he also can suggest what original Henry parts you can keep ,use if you choose and also makes , sells the additional components you will need . Drove mine from Md to Mo. 2150 miles round trip in Sept this year , so mine has been sorted and made real road worthy . From this to this to now ! Do it right 1st time save you a lot of time , money and agrivation , wish you well !
^^^agree-I suggested Dale(weedetr)to Bigmac48 when he was looking to do his car. I have used many of his products on 40's and they work great!!!
Yes you did !!! Glad I had enough sense to listen . Tim , thank you for answering a lot of what if , what's best and other questions I had about my 40 and I'm still asking ,
Man, if you think a stack of hardware store nuts on a long bolt at the rear locating point for the whole front suspension is an okay solution to a clearance problem, I'm out.
I'm going to add one more thing to the discussion before I leave you alone (and I do not mean this as an attack on you or your car). Hot rods have been built for many years by all levels of craftsmen. Some of those craftsmen had excellent problem solving ability, fabrication skills and at the very least a rudimentary understanding of sound engineering principles. As the hotrods they built went down the road, they were safe, often fast, looked right and drove nicely. In general, this board tries to encourage the kind of craftsmen and quality work that creates these type of hotrods. Other hotrods banged, bumped, shook, failed to brake, rubbed and wandered all over the road and were pretty much a threat to the safety of the occupants or anyone sharing the road or sidewalks nearby. They were built by those that had the desire but did not necessarily possess the skills noted in the above paragraph. In many cases, the creator that built such contraptions are no longer the owners. Their creations were purchased by others with desire, but perhaps not the wisdom or experience to recognize the flaws. Many on this board offer to mentor and provide free advice to those that have the desire, but not yet the experience and attributes mentioned in the top paragraph. It is offered with the best interest of the car, owner, occupants and other nearby motorists sharing the road. The goal is to improve the experience of the creator or new owner so they too can benefit from the safety and good handling of a well built and well designed hotrod. You have an excellent starting point in your car. It has a few problems that once solved will make the car much more safe and enjoyable. I agree that replacing worn parts is step one. Step two should be to correct some of the poorly executed modifications and problems. Good luck with your project.
It's called "Mock-up" ... attaching the wishbone in place to see what I need to move to make it correct... but ok, BYE.
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