Hot Rods XO/PP Bonneville project

What a land of extremes...Beauty and the Beast...

 

Took my f1 out for a drive today, it's been in the garage all winter felt really good to get it out

 

Built this truck 10 years ago Flathead V8 all stock except for a T5 ******, wheels and radial tires even the radio works AM Only lol

 

Today on the salt. Water dries quickly there

 

Looks like its gone away

 

Working the header today

 

Newer guys always worry about rain to early. Now when your pit looks like this on Saturday you need to worry

 

Getting the exhaust done and how to cure VHT coatings

 

And now the intake is on as well

 

In need of a distributor gear for 262 or 223 Ford
Inline six
Anyone..
Pm me ..John

 

Don't you have a spare 223 in the storage area? Pete and Jason both have 223s laying around.

 

I got one for ya John!

 

"You're gonna need a bigger sump pump."

 

I agree on the headers, think you could be leaving something on the table.

 

I appreciate the info on headers guys this is something to try in the future. Thinking I may redo my old header and have it for testing on the duno this winter after Speed Week and Arkansas mile in October. I want to test my new ones first

 

Dave came and got the distributor this morning John. Hope it works for ya!

 

Saltflats is being kind and Frenchtown is correct about your headers. You are leaving a good 5% on the table. So changes may or may not be necessary this year. You should find that out on the dyno.

Many chapters have been written on header design. I'll touch on a few things that are known to work:

-- equal length & correct diameter primary tubes.
-- equal length & correct diameter secondary tubes.
-- correct length & diameter tertiary tube.
-- merge primary & secondary collectors.
-- free air after tertiary tube (or much larger "exhaust pipe" to meet rules).
-- primary tubes going into correct collector. (Every other firing cylinder into each collector).

Here is my guess for a place to start:

-- merge collectors.
-- 1.75" primary dia x 28-30" long from exhaust valve.
-- 2" secondary dia x 14" long.
-- 2.25" tertiary dia x 28" long.
-- 3.5" minimum (4 or 5" better) exhaust pipe dia.

Or, skip the tertiary step and run dual exhaust. 6 into 2 instead of 6 into 2 into 1 with 3" dia (minimum) exhaust pipes.

A final note. The exit diameter of each collector should be no more than 1/4" larger than the entry tube diameters! I know that is not what you are used to seeing on commercially available headers but that is what works. If you step the primarys from 1.75" to 1.875" it doesn't change the exit diameter of the collector...still 2"!

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Didn't work but I found the one I needed here at the shop I can bring the one you sent back to you so the 223 will be complete again. Really appreciate you ... John

 

Sounds like you have some knowledge of inline 6 headers. Have you ran this theorie befor?

 

Header video:

https://studio.youtube.com/video/jKeIU3l2t90/edit

 

John, my header experience is only with 4 and 6 cylinder horizontally opposed (boxer) engines for circuit track (road) racing. Designs were tested on the track and backed up on the dyno before being finalized. Collector design was a big part of early testing. The early primary collectors looked about like your secondary collector and they were the worst. Off by 5-10%! The next generation collectors were a little better than your primary collectors and were still off by 3% compared to merge collectors.

Headers are just a piece of the race engine puzzle. You've got other systems that all have to play nice together. Like:

-- carb ****erfly & venturi size and runner size & length, etc. The whole intake picture.

-- compression ratio, combustion chamber design, etc. You want lots of compression to help mid range but not so much that you scuff or burn pistons.

-- camshaft. You don't want one that has a nice, flat power curve as it will be mushy and the torque will fall off too steeply. Conversely you don't want one that is too peeky as it will be difficult to stay in the power curve. Sort of like your experience with the 2 speed trans where you had to overrev 1st gear and still were too low for the power curve in 2nd when you shifted.

Plus more...

I hope the salt is the best ever and you have good luck this year.

Mark

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John, one more Unfair Advantage tip. On your Oberg. I haven't looked at an early Oberg like yours in years but it looks like the 4 corner fasteners are screws that may be threaded into the the bottom (out) plate. If that is the case, I would use through bolts so the threads can't strip out with high oil pressure and "blow" your seal similar to your blown oil filter o-ring. This did happen to us! Once. BTW, we use Obergs in all our race cars.

The best easy fix is to thread the bottom plate through (if it's not already) and blue loc***e in fully threaded bolts from the bottom that will look like studs but won't pull through. Then use flat washers and nuts to hold the top plate secure. That way it will be easy to check after every run.

BTW, Frenchtown Flyer's stainless headers check all the boxes! He knows!

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Mark great info thanks for your imput

 

Great work day today ****** back in. Driveshaft in, front clip and bumper back on finalizing the clutch set up

 

Thank you Dave and Lee I appreciate you guys..

 

On the subject of headers, im with the merge collector suggestion guys....
You can contact burns stainless, fill out their race engine form, theyll give you specs for whatever header you want for whatever performance you want, including merge collector design....
Read everything calvin elston has ever written on speed-talk and yellow bullet too....
Maybe track him down for his input.. extremely smart guy
Larry meaux too...

 

Or.. if you havnt tried pipemax, that could give some good insight too....

 

Interesting article:
https://burnsstainless.com/blogs/articles-1/merge-collectors

 

Great article, NASCAR engine builders have been using merge collectors for many years with great success. I know that a small amount of back pressure can develop a torque gain but at the expense of a small HP loss.
In some applications as oval track racing it can be beneficial as torque gets you off the corners better as well as a wider torque band.
So why did I not do this. I'm Looking outside of the box.

 

Just a bit of insight here
The 262 Ford inline six was built as a low RPM torque engine used in large trucks. Having sead that its basically a tractor motor that not very many have used it as a performance application.
Not much data as to combinations on this engine so it's an experiment at best. I have been building performance engines for over 60 years and know what works in conventional engines that have been around many years and have been developed to perfection.
The 262 Ford has had very little development so anything done to build HP
Is trial and error. There are no off the shelf parts available for it so everything has to be custom made. I have learned how to build power in conventional engines over the years as many have developed the engine tech to do so.
Having sead this I do appreciate all the input being shared here. It will take much to develope a combination that will propell the XO/PP 640 in to the record book. It won't be easy but I love a challenge. Ideas are welcome and give me thoughts to ponder over.
It's a slow process at best.
I will say a record in the XO/PP cl*** is our main goal but the journey is what makes it sweeter.
If it was easy everyone would be doing it.
I just hope everyone following this finds some of the adventure we are on. It hasn't been easy and hard on the pocket but somehow we have managed with help from others and it is much appreciated.