I've got a question for some of you guys out there, and I'm hoping someone has a definitive answer...does flux-core welding affect your lungs in a negative way (more than MIG or TIG), or is it just a combination of 13 years of smoking and the grinding/welding dust and smoke that's got me screwed up?...I've been grinding and welding a lot lately, and it seems that after only an hour or so my lungs start to "tighten" up, I start coughing a lot more and having a cigarette makes my lungs hurt...I know I should probably quit smoking, but is there something with flux-core welding or grinding dust that I'm not being cautious about?...do I need more ventilation, or should I be wearing a respirator?...I was spray painting a bit too, but my lungs went screwy before I started doing that...
Yes, flux core is harsher on the lungs than mig/tig. It's the flux that does it. the fumes are similar to stick welding. That said, it's probably the a combination of things that have you messed up. Remember, grinding dust is little metal particles that will settle in your lungs. Ever do some grinding and end up with black boogers? The inside of your lungs look the same way.
Safety is never O/T. You should be wearing either a good respirator designed for the fumes your generating or a free-air breathing system - they're cheap now.....cheaper than new lungs. This goes for anything this side of breathing clean air. You should always have good ventilation when welding, cutting, grinding, blasting or painting anything with anything. You should have stopped smoking years ago. Go see your doctor about the symptoms your having. Could be nothing. Could be something. Its not knowing thats gonna get ya sooner if its something. -Bigchief.
I try to remember to wear my respirator when grinding, but I'm sure the fan keeps kicking up some of that dust...I really should consider making a negative ventilation system for the shop to **** everything out and up into the rafters and out the roof vents...it'd almost be nice to have some ductwork up there with a little hood over my welding table...I bet that old cage fan from a furnace would provide adequate suction...hmmm...
I figure it's about time I started taking care of myself, what with the bad hearing and how out of shape I am, the smoking and the amount of metal work and fabrication I do...it's either I give a **** now or I pay the price later, so I think I'll start doing things a little differently from now on...
Go see the doctor and ask him what the problem is . You cant afford to guess about what is the cause of your issues. You know somethings not right, and your hopeing it will get better by itself . Dr Michael Rosen wrote a book called "Real Age" . In it he states" If we look at our financial life we know exactly how much money we have coming in ,how much we saved, Unfortunately with our health we dont know how much we spent and how much we have left. " Ive done the same thing trying to deny I didnt have a blocked artery .(4 year denial) It wasnt until the day after surgery that I realized how shortsighted my delay was. Take care of yourself.If you dont who will? Larry
Beware of Welding Gas Hazards Welding gas contains hazardous metal fumes that can make you sick, cause Parkinson like symptoms, or even kill you. The extent of the welding gas hazard depends on many factors including materials, location, ventilation, surfaces, paints, solvents, as well as: The welding method that produces the welding gas (such as MIG, TIG, or stick) What the welding rod (electrode) is made of Filler metals and base metals (such as mild steel and stainless steel) The welding gas hazards - According to the Center to Protect Workers Rights, "In confined spaces, welding can be much more dangerous. With less fresh air, toxic fumes and gases can be much stronger. Shielding gases, like argon, can displace the oxygen and kill you. METALS. These are some of the toxic metals contained in welding gases include: Stainless steel contains nickel and chromium. Nickel can cause asthma. Nickel and chromium can cause cancer. Chromium can cause sinus problems and "holes" between the nostrils. Mild steel (red iron) and carbon steel contain manganese. Manganese can cause Parkinson's disease, which cripples the nerves and muscles. Zinc in galvanized metal or in paint can cause metal fume fever. It feels like the flu and goes away in a few hours or days after exposure ends." COATINGS, RESIDUES, SOLVENTS and WELDING GAS HAZARDS Lead (in some paints) can cause lead poisoning headaches, sore muscles and joints, nausea, stomach cramps, irritability, memory loss, anemia, and kidney and nervous system damage. If lead dust goes home on work clothes/shoes, it can make your family sick, most of all your children. Cadmium (in some paints and fillers) can cause kidney problems and cancer. Welding through or near some (chlorinated) solvents can produce phosgene, a poisonous gas. The gas can cause fluid in the lungs. You may not notice the problem until hours after you quit welding. But fluid in your lungs can kill you. When carbon dioxide is used for shielding, carbon monoxide can form and kill you. Carbon monoxide can form also in oxyacetylene welding. The welding arc can form ozone and nitrogen oxides from the air. MIG and TIG welding make the most ozone, most of all when aluminum is welded. These fumes irritate the eyes, ear, nose, throat, and lungs and can damage the lungs. Some nitrogen oxides can cause fluid in the lungs. Protect Yourself from Welding Gas Hazards All welding gas hazards, fumes, and vapors that come from metal, paints, fluxes, degreasers, rods during welding are covered by the OSHA hazcom standard. So, your employer must train you about the risks and show you material safety data sheets (MSDSs) about any of the chemicals, if you ask. OSHA says you must remove all paint and solvents before welding or torch cutting. Make sure all residues are removed. Use the safest welding method for the job. Stick welding makes much less fume than flux core welding. Use welding rods that produce a low fume. 90% of the fume can come from the rod. Welding guns that extract fumes can capture 95% of the fume. In a confined space, follow all the OSHA confined-space rules like air monitoring, not storing torches in the space, and ventilation. OSHA says you must have good ventilation. Use local-exhaust ventilation to remove fumes and gases at their source in still air. Keep the exhaust hood opening 4" to 6" from the fume source. Use air blowers to blow fumes away from you when you are outdoors and it's windy. Keep your face far from the welding plume. If the ventilation is not good, use a respirator. If respirators are used, OSHA says your employer must have a full respiratory protection program. This means proper selection and fitting of respirators, medical screening to be sure a worker can wear a respirator, and worker training. Correct respirator storage and cleaning and an evaluation of the program are needed. If you smoke, quit. OSHA has limits for exposure to metals, gases, and total fumes during welding. But these limits may not protect you enough, because they are out of date. The National Ins***ute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) says welding fumes may cause cancer, so keep the fume levels as low as possible.
First go to the doc and make sure there is nothing else going on inside your lungs. Then on the way back from the doctors stop by OSH or Home Deput or whatever and pick up a NICE respirator. Make sure the cartridges are rated for welding fumes. Your local welding shop shoud have some nice masks if you cant find one at the hardware store. Whenever I weld and grind my respirator is ON, with the garage door open also helps.
I usually have my respirator on when grinding, but not welding since it won't fit under my helmet...I know it's nothing serious since it only happens when I weld and grind all day in the shop...it's mostly just nagging coughs and such...itchy throat and heavy lungs, some phlegm every now and then...
after many years of mig and tig welding in tight places and in confined places i have had to hang upside down to expell the argon rom my lungs because it is more dense the the air. Dr ssaid my breathing was diminished and this fixed it.
that's not a bad tip...I wonder what other gases and fumes we breathe in from welding that might do the same thing in our lungs...
I don't know if this is true - haven't killed myself yet - but I've heard that welding a ****load of galvanized stuff can kill ya. There was a thread on a welding board I read (it's on the internet - it must be true!)where a guy who'd been a long-time member posted about getting sick from welding galvanized indoors. He ended up dying a few days later. But my computer got its bookmarks & **** all wiped out after daughter downloaded some songs or something... so I can't go back and find the name of message board now. Maybe someone here can confirm or deny this one. -bill
another happy camper here at the HAMB...maybe he's got a Dagmar stuck up his *** or something...anyway, I'm feeling way better as of now, next time I'm out there I'll definately ventilate better...
QUIT SMOKING..it its hard but it helps..i smoked for 17 years and been quit now since april 1 2004...ever heard of the shot to make you quit.it works..thats what i did..its costly but worth it..(nosmokeamerica.com)cost me $500 but well worth it..when i decided to quit and take the shot i was smoking 3 packs per day..but it really works
I wonder if my benefits at work would help cover that...it's REALLY hard to quit smoking, especially when you've been doing it over half your life already...
i noticed some pretty heavy breathing after a day of welding last week, guess i should try to not kill myself so much. although a weld on galvanized is usually good for a slight twitch and convulsion, hard to not wanna miss out on that...
there are other ways I can think of to get twitches and convulsions...and only one is the good kind...especially is she's cute...
dang,, i need a good twitch and convulsion about now..............but think i am low on weldin wire.............
then wake up the wifey and give her a go... anyone got any ideas on better roof ventilation using a box fan or an old furnace cage fan or something? I really hate having my garage door open, what with all the devil music and noise and I don't like people seeing what kinds of equipment and parts and cars are in my shop...I'm paranoid like that
Jezus - thanks for posting this. And thank you Speedy3 for taking the time to scare the **** out of me/us. When I learned to weld in school, I guess I took for granted the giant exhaust/venting systems. I wonder if a bathroom vent might be too small to properly ventialte a 2-bay garage. Maybe I'll rig something a little meatier up. That would actually make an interesting slightly O/T tech week post. "How to CHEAPLY and efficiently ventilate your garage."
depends...do ya wanna blow or do ya wanna ****? j/k (sorry, I couldn't resist) put an exhaust fan with shutters in the roof and a ceiling fan inside on the ceiling. Run the ceiling fan in reverse to pull smoke up to the exhaust fan. Or, an exhaust fan in two of the walls and one in the roof. Pull fresh air in through the walls and blow it out the roof. Just an idea.
Actually furnace fans work well. Especially ones from bigger furnaces. Wire it into a switch in the shop, use a "Big foot" type sono-shutter,about $10 each from your local builders merchant, and a bit of big bore hose and you can move a lot of air. I used to be lazy about using a respirator, never put my extractors on when it was real cold, so the shop was warmer, and I coughed and spluttered my way to the day my doctor told me I'd got lung cancer and a bunch of secondaries. That stopped my smoking, and now nobody is allowed in the shop with out everything running. The wife makes my polishes and does what polishing she can while I tyake the chemo and work on getting healthy. Much easier to stay that way from the off.
One fairly low-buck method is to scrounge a couple of squirrel cage blowers & motors from your local heating & A/C guy. I can get 'em free just for pulling them out of the old furnaces that are being discarded. You can duct them any way you want- out the wall may be easiest, with a simple rain shield, or through a good size roof vent. They're usually one of the last pieces to fail in a furnace, so old ones work just fine. I used (just moved, so I'll have to do it all again) one blower for the welding area, one for a cheap paint booth (might want to shield the nice electric motor from the flammable paint fumes ) , & one for general exhaust/cooling purposes. Absolutely check with the doctor. Yeah, it's a pain, expensive, & time consuming....and maybe life-saving. Bodies are just like houses, boats, cars....it's a lot easier & cheaper to do routine maintenance & simple repairs, than to let something go for five years & have major problems & rot. Besides, my wife & kids won't have anybody to kick around if I go. Well, at least until she remarries & the ******* sells all my tools & parts cheap.
The best welder around here breathed welding fumes and smoked Camel nonfilters, and the last time I had him weld something for me, he casually mentioned that he had been sleeping sitting up in a chair for the past six months because he couldn't breathe when he laid down. He cashed out at 54.....anyone that thinks it's hard to quit smoking should have followed my father around for the last two years of his life. He went as far as his oxygen tube would let him, and just faded away like a match burning down to the end of the stick.
generally I'd say that putting either type of ventilation TOO close to the work would be a bad idea...(im talking right at the source here) idealy what youd want to do is have your ventilation a good foot away at the very least to make sure you dont take away from the gas shield, and using a fan to blow away the fumes is generally a bad idea since only a little air flow can screw up welds big time......... i remember one situation where i was doing some tig and about 10 feet away was another welding machine with its exaust blowing a slight breeze onto my work... porosity everywhere in the welds... BUT flux core on the other hand is the exception id say...... if you really want to get rid of the heavy fumes caused by flux core id say blow them away...... ive used flux core on many outdoor applications with reasonable winds with no issues at all... I've never used it myself but a friend of mine has a Hornell helmet and says its great for blocking out the fumes, it has some kind of fresh air vent design on the sides of the helmet.. they also sell GREAT fresh air source masks which i have used when welding galvanized.... blah blah blah all this to say a cheap way to get rid of fumes when welding FLUX CORE and nothing else, is to just blow away the fumes with a fan on low.... Mike
A whole house fan (AKA attic fan) would probably vent the fumes from the area nicely. They are available in most larger hardware stores. My mother wants the one in her house removed, and I have been thinking about putting it in my garage. I doubt I could run it any higher than the lowest speed, but it should help a lot with pulling fumes out of the garage, and cool it off better. I don't like to have folks looking in my garage either, and this would allow me to work in there with the doors open just a foot or two. Slonaker
I'm thinking of throwing that huge furnace fan up in the rafters and piping it up to a covered stack on the roof, and having flexible hose I can hang from a hook on the rafters and place wherever I need it when I need it...this will happen soon, and hopefully sometime soon I can get a new digital camera to take tech pics with...might even make a good article for OSR magazine...I feel about as close to 100% today as I do any other day, so at least things are back to normal for me...I talked to some guys today about that shot to quit smoking and they all said it hasn't been approved for use in the US yet, is that still the case?
Not to derail the thread, but I hear that grinding dust can be extremely harmful. I've heard that the particles from the grinding disk can become inbedded in your lung tissue. This leads to silicosis or cancer. Is this true?
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