My crankshaft broke in my Model A at the back of the #4 rod journel. The engine has been line bored, balanced, has a counter balanced A crank, chopped flywheel, it is a "touring engine" built by H&H. This is a car I use for everyday driving, I don't race it or push it. I hardly ever get up to 2500 rpm, and I drive it at about 1800 top speed. My first su****ion was balance, and it's been re-checked front to back and all is true. Has anybody seen or know of a crank breaking at this spot or have any idea why it would break there? Thanks, Tyrod
Did you purchase the engine from H&H and install it, or did you buy the car with the "H&H" engine? Either way, take some real good pics of the damaged area and talk with H&H and get their opinion. Does the bearing area look like it got hot & seized? Do you know if the crank rod journals have been turned down? Very important to have proper radius on the outter ends or it creates stress cracks. Keep us informed. Mike
wow, that sure is disheartening, I've been considering the H&H toruing motor I know they offer a warranty, how old is this thing? Has the flywheel been lightened? I've read those are one reason for cranks snapping, they're so heavy and the crank is so small.......
Hang on, guys, let's not say anything too rash about H & H just yet. This may not be their fault so lets wait until we know the facts. These are old engines and **** happens, regardless of who built the engine and however long ago. Tyrod, that sounds like a fairly unusual place for a break (to me, anyway!). Your best option is to go straight back to H & H and get their opinion. A photo or two here of the damage for our benefit wouldn't go amiss though.
Hey tyrod and welcome to the HAMB. I'm a newbie here to say the least but maybe I can help you out a little here. The model "A" crankshafts have an certain problem and that is they will crystalize and break. I have seen this problem more often in the "B" motor crankshafts than "A's". I would strongly suggest contacting Max at H&H and let him first address your motor's situation and the problem you have rather than BBQ a Highly Respected Engine Builder and Patriot of Our Cause, as no engine builder in his right mind would ***emble an engine with a damaged crank let alone one that has been in business 40+ years! These 4 Bangers are a real pain sometimes and the crankshafts a just one of many things that can and will go wrong. New counterweighted versions are out there for sale now at somewhere near $750.00 a pop if you are serious about making for a cure.
Thanks Mike, I've been in close contact with H&H and I don't think the problem is with the crank to rod connection or the lack of lubrication. I bought the engine from H&H and installed it myself. At first I thought I'd done something wrong. I mean, how could the crank break? After sending the engine back to H&H and talking with Max about the problem they sent me a new engine. I an extreamly satisfied with the way H&H has stood behind their product even though we have not clearly resolved the cause. I'll keep you posted, tyrod
Where are these cranks available? I have a friend that has had one on order for over a year for his "B" motor.
Sorry if I gave you the idea that I'm in any way unhappy with H&H. Both Max Jr. and Max Sr. have gone out of their way for me. In fact they have been very professional and commited to solving this mystery. I recommend their touring engine. Mine has a counter-balanced crank and a chopped (and balanced) flywheel. It is still not clear what caused the crank to break, but H&H has stood behind their work, and they've been more than fair with me. -tyrod
Sorry if it sounded like I thought H&H was at fault. They have stood behind their work !00% and treated me very good. I agree, we're working with old iron and **** happen's. We're still not clear what caused the break in the first place. so, I ask, has anyone else had a crank break where mine has? If so, I would like to hear about it. Thanks, tyrod
Hey, thanks for the welcome. I'm just drivin' down the road, didn't mean to run anybody into the ditch. Let me know if you hear of anybody with a crankshaft problem like mine. -tyrod
Hey Scootersnipe, Right on about what you've written in plain text, we're on the same page there. The cranks usually break at the rear main. I understand that when you're working with 75+ year old iron, ya' gotta' expect things to fail now and then. When mine broke I went straight to H&H and they took care of it. Both Max Jr. and Max Sr. went over the engine thoroughly and ended up sending me a new engine. I couldn't could ask for more. As for what you've written in red, I think you've misread or miss-understood what I wrote. I'm asking if anyone else has had their crankshaft break where mine did. I'm not blaming H&H. I just don't want it to happen again. -tyrod
H&H is a really good company to do business with. I've exchanged emails with Max Sr. about some magneto questions and he was prompt & to the point with explainations. I haven't done business with them just yet, but plan to. I know that H&H and Bert's Model A in Denver work together as Bert's is a distributor for their motors. One question i forgot to ask - was the motor one of the babitt types or was it converted to inserts? Just curious. If you can let us all know what H&H finds as the problem for the broken crankshaft, it would be great. Sometimes, certain combination of parts just don't work well together and that knowledge can help others with their plans. Thanks, Mike
I read your first post and i didnt see anything that would suggest you were even remotely trying to bash H&H. Looks to me like someone else didnt read it right and ***umed............... Dave
Hey Mike, My engine has insert bearings. If we can clearly pinpoint the cause of this problem, I will post it. Good to hear from you, tyrod
Cranshaft breaking, Hi, I am Max Sr, from H & H and would like to give all a little insight/history on the Ford crank and our modifications, and possible causes of crank failure. The Ford cracnk is a Forged ( NOT CAST) Steel crank with a early Beaver Tail design which had a bigged OD on the round cheeks by the rod and arm connections, and the second design was wwith a smaller rounf area but a larger connecting arm. Not a big deal justa Ford change not a real huge issue. We have found when drilling these cranks for pressure, and remember they are forged steel, that we will hit hard spots, and I mean harder than the hubs of hell, as well as some inclusions or voids, where the drill will feel like it is slipping thru a hollow. We weld our counterweights ( which are the same pattern I have used since 1970 and given to me by Joe Gemsa who started me and taught me a lot of the Offy stuff and 4 banger stuff as well as his overhead racing equip) in a certain way whereas we can weld and handle the crank and not even get the crank as hot as it is in a running engine ( I cant tell the procedure cuz it is part of certain processes we do that are real speciific to ouor engines, sort of a trade secret), . We mag all the cranks before and after, BUT as you all know a Mag will only tell you it is not broken NOW and with 75 year old plus iron etc., nobody knows when it will break except the Shadow, and he aint talkin. We grind the cranks witha specific procedure as to establish a center off the rear flange and the front gear flange so as to recreate Fords center and then establish stroke etc as well as grind ( bump) the flywheel hub mounting flange to insure straightnes and a lot of other steps, and then we spin balance to a 1" center line ( generall balancing done in a 3" center arc). What we have seen is that Ford Balanced the crank on the round cheeks by drilling and I have inspected a broken crank at the #4 rod through and found that when Ford did their factory balance ( and this crank was not altered by human hands) that they drill deep enough to actually go into the horizonal plain of the rod pin and with time it simply radially fractured. These cranks are like the human body, when we were young gladiators and took a hit in the hip, crashed and burned etc., we would get up and keep rolling, now when we take a thrashing we are medivacted out looking for a hip replacement. And as we all know, as we get older, the better we were when we were young, the up side of memory blur. Age takes it toll on alll this old Iron, and the best we can do is help resolve the problem with what ever it takes. We will look at any issues and try to determine the cause, but some is just age and **** happens. We have just finished our H Beam Forged Rods for the Bangers and they will take 400hp, not that any banger is going to make that, and a New Forged A Crank is sone coming. PS the SCoT Blower we are making will be on display at Pleasonton Good Guys this August. If any one has any questions, feeel free to give us a call at the shop and we will be more than glad to answer questions or just bs. Thanks Max Sr.
Thanx for posting and clearing that up max. Im considering a nice banger for a little project I have in my head atm. Rat
The Jalopy Journal
