Customs Define "Custom" for me/us

OK lets see if we can have this conversation with a minimum of saber rattling, please.

We have a few threads about customs and no doubt there is a definition in there but lost in the rest of the conversation. Perhaps this subject is a current thread that I have missed somehow so that being the case the powers to be should probably delete this thread.

OK so here goes. Let us see if we can define "Custom" this can be broken down into era because we all lean to one era or another and personal opinion is certainly welcome here.

Here is one that I like.




I personally prefer early customs unless they are milder late 50s/early 60s customs.

 

Mild, late 50s/early 60s is where my heart lies! That is when I receive early instruction on rods 'n customs, by an older brother. I appreciate early customs as well. My taste tends to remain on the mild side of custom creations! My present mild custom project has a target date of 1957. That is when my oldest brother drove a '46 fordor to high school. I removed and filled the trim holes on the fenders for a later application of mild, symmetrical Watson styled scallops, circa '57.

 

That now would be a Traditional custom. Not that a pre 64 ride that has the right mods, right wheel and tire combo with correct pieces for the time frame it represents isn't a traditional custom.

Personally I can appreciate almost all rigs that can be called customs and actually like a lot of early 60's mild customs as those were what the "older guys" had when I was in high school. Older guys meaning those in their mid 20's with good job who could afford a new or year or two old car, and had it nosed and decked and lowered a bit with a custom grill and chrome wheels.

Putting a visor on anything absolutely does not make it a custom nor is it customizing. It doesn't matter how many issues of Lowrider Magazine you have, that is not custom. Those marked someone's Grandpa's car in the 50's and 60's around here.

If it has all the chrome on it it is not a custom no matter how much you spent on wheels and tires or on the paint job. Reminds me of a non car guy buddy of mine who had a new Harley bagger a few years ago that told me that it was "all custom" because he had pretty much one of each of every bolt on trinket that was on the trinket wall of the local Harley shop. All covers with gold eagles, rails around the bags with extra lights that would give an Oklahoma truck drive light envy and other add on frufru.

 

I’d say one external dodad purchase from Honest Charlie, JC Whitney, Trace Amigos dela Pep, etc would do it for me..
Now a radial custom is a totally different story.

 

just like porn. I cannot define it but I know it when I see it.

 

Custom.....tailored to fit your desires and taste.

 

Like it or not a Hotrod is a custom.

 

This is timely, I recently purchased a '48 Chevrolet Stylemaster but wasn't sure if it was a custom or what. Now, maybe I can get some clarity.

 

It all goes out the window when you start spelling with a K.

 

I think that as time has passed, perceptions of what is and is not a custom has changed somewhat. Up to about the mid '50s, Hot Rods and Customs had more distinction between them and it wasn't that hard to tell them apart. While there's always been some blurring of the lines, customs up to '49 were generally full-fendered post-'35 cars built in a specific style and nearly always lowered. The main idea behind it was to mimic more expensive cars with a strong influence from the European and US coachbuilders. The OHV V8 changed that to a degree as well as the sleeker designs that started coming out of Detroit. A custom now could be equipped with a OHV V8 and approach or equal the performance of a flathead-equipped pre-'36 hot rod... and hide it all under the hood.

The mid to late '50s was a revolutionary time. Sleeker bodies and new V8s from virtually every manufacturer. Stop and think about how many all-new OHV V8s came out in the '50s; Cadillac, Olds (two), Chrysler (3 different hemis and two wedge!), Ford with the Y-block and FE, Buick, Chevrolet (SB and W), Pontiac, Studebaker, Packard and Rambler. Vets with money in their pockets were spending it with guys like the Barris and Ayala Bros, Hines, Bailon to name just a few. The coachbuilder influence rapidly disappeared as the builders started exploring the possibilities and competed with each other on the show circuit. GM with their Motorama display and concept cars from the big three further fired imaginations. Another seismic shift occurred in the '57-58 period when cars became lower/wider/longer and the last vestiges of '40s era styling from Detroit disappeared.

If I had to pick just one car that I feel had the most influence on customs, I'd have to go with the 'Ala Kart'. This car erased the differences between rods and customs and IMO was the genesis for Ed Roth. If you can't see it's influence in the Outlaw and particularly the Beatnic Bandit, you're not looking hard enough.

I've made no secret of the fact that I think the attempt here to apply a 'traditional' litmus test to customs and the parts used is silly. Yes, there is a 'traditional' look and I fully embrace it, although I'm firmly in the '60-65 time frame with a few exceptions as to the style I like. If you want to claim traditional status, you must limit design cues to the era you like. A basic example would be don't use square shapes on a rounded car. For me, customs have always been about the design, I could care less where the parts come from.

One thing that does seem to pass muster with the 'trad' crowd and irritates me no end is interiors. I can't count all the supposedly 'trad' cars I see that have interiors that look like they were lifted in whole or part out of a late-model luxury car. Customs are all about the design, not the 'details'. This is a sin committed by both the custom crowd and the rodders...

 

To quote some old timer: A hot rod is built to go faster. A custom is built to look better. Minimum requirement is to be lowered, and have superfluous trim, emblems, handles removed.

 

custom vs. custom

Thanks @firemangordy

Customize
verb cus·tom·ize | \ ˈkə-stə-ˌmīz \
customized; customizing
Definition of customize
transitive verb: to build, fit, or alter according to individual specifications

First Known Use of “customize” 1920

Hello,

For those that have their own way to define what custom or customize means, there are plenty of different looks as there are people in the world. To some, ONLY full custom cars are those that meet certain custom qualities.

To others, it is a show car only. Most people think of custom cars as built to a point of not being "streetable" or used for daily driving. Show cars do not get driven on a daily basis. Most people believe the custom car group is a subculture of the hot rod world (meaning a smaller group within a small group), which is a subculture in its self of the whole automotive world.

A topic researcher could use these topics to define modifications within a group.

To make an example:
Outlining in research:


Jnaki

In recent times, the word “Bespoke” is used to describe something that has been customized.

But, it is a definition to describe “custom made.” So, as many ways to look at a custom car, there are many ways to describe it in a real definition, not just in a hot rod or custom car world. By the way, custom is another word for modified. So, aren’t most hot rods Modified or customized?

bespoke: adjective
be·spoke | \ bi-ˈspōk , bē- \
variants: or less commonly bespoken \ bi-ˈspō-kən , bē- \

Definition of bespoke

1a: CUSTOM-MADE a bespoke suit

Synonyms for bespoke

Synonyms
.custom, custom-made, custom-tailored, customized, made-to-order, tailor-made, tailored

To give this post one last question to ponder: Since custom cars are less in numbers versus the standard hot rods, the definitions that arise from the small quantity of people involved have their own way to define, custom. And... it does not start with "K."

Hot rods, as in total numbers, were discussed in another thread as to the sheer numbers involved. It also showed how much things like descriptions change as the years/decades/distinct locations differ across the whole world. So, to each his own…

 

It is hard to explain the meaning. A Hot Rod can have custom features but it is still a hot rod. A custom can have features of a hot rod and still be a custom. You have to know the difference. This is the same car. Top pic-- a true custom. The bottom pic has custom features with a hot rod rake, moon discs and no skirts. Still a custom but also can be called a hot rod.

 

For me: HotRod vs Custom = Aggression vs Refinement

 

Is this a custom ? The hood has been cleaned of all emblems. Lowered a bit in the rear with skirts. And flipper hubcaps. A very very mild custom. I bet it has dual exhaust as well. Something that might of been done when purchased new. So for the early 1950`s it is called a custom. But most would say no by todays standard.

 

Is this a custom because of the stance. But it does have a chopped top. A shaved front bumper and all chrome removed from the hood. More of a 70`s Hot Rod build style than a custom.

 

for the ones who don't know see this book.


the Early Barris and Westergard stuff is my Favorite, but also some mild 50's stuff into the Watson paintjobs.

also Hagen frenched lights are more of 90's custom thing.

 

A 'custom' is something you have to wax...

 

This top on this one has been chopped and altered a bit. It has a hot rod rake. Some chrome has been removed but is leaning a bit more towards the Hot Rod style. A Hot Rod with custom features. If you can imagine a guy wearing a skirt. A combination of both styles. I see a custom with a Hot Rod stance. See the differance between the two.

 

From Page 1 of the above:

"This Rulebook is intended for the exclusive use of ISCA officials and members only. Use by non-members is prohibited and will result in formal legal action."

<sigh>

Since I like street customs of the late 1930 thru early 1960's, I do not care for the overdone "show" customs.

Russ

 

I was told by a Antique Guy I know that my Merc. is a Street Rod.
its Nosed all the Chrome is of & it has a Different Engine in it
and one time I had all the Door Handel's off it with Buttons.

Just my 3.5 cents

Live Learn & Die a Fool

Just

 

If you have to ask then you will never truly know.

 

Boss defines it for HAMB here:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/guidelines-the-traditional-custom-forum.828351/

 

AS per the ISCA rulebook...

CONSERVATIVE 0-3 modifications
MILD 4-6 modifications
SEMI 7-10 modifications
FULL over 10 modifications
RADICAL Any number of modifications, at least one of which is chopping, channeling or sectioning.

The modification count has resulted in some real abortions in the past...

 

Back in the mid seventies, I was itching to get my license and buy my first car. I had my eye on what had been a very nice custom 54 Chevy hardtop, built about 15 years before. It still had the full custom interior with a different dash, seating, upholster, GTO 389. Taillights and other parts had some tasty mods. Only thing was, it now sported a hood scoop, slotted Mags and wide tires. What was once probably a tail dragger had its ass in the air.
I told my friends I wanted to turn it back into a custom, that seemed weird to them, so I bought a muscle car, to fit in with the cool kids. Point is, build whatever you want. Trends change over the years. I think we all know what traditional custom means, as it pertains to this site.

 

I think that a visor on a Bombita is totally acceptable. Most of those here on the HAMB do not accept that cultural form of customization. I like them real well but unlike most of the people you will meet I prefer Mexicans to people.

Some think this is a can of worms, but given the current trend of asking questions about customs I figure that those posting must know what a custom is. We all have a different idea I am sure but even customs that are not low and slow still sit on the other side of the chasm from a hot rod.

@Mr48chev here is part of the madness that brought this to my mind. I currently have some T parts in my shop that are destined to be turned into a C cab. This will not be one of those odd '70s C cabs but definitely not a "restorod" if or when it ever comes about (this may or may not be my truck BTW). In my mind it is a a hot rod build but someone who I respect (those are few and far between) recently said that I was building a custom. That made me begin to think which is dangerous and I decided to see what all these experts thought.

That stupid rule book put an OT mini that I owned into custom class at a show. It was never ever going to be a custom, it was not pro street because it was not tubbed. The people running the show just counted modifications and went from there. Cooling scoops for the brakes, aluminum tonneau, 4 piston brembos, 4 link, 9" locker, V8, after market buckets, fabbed console, altered gauge pod, etc etc. Granted not trad in any sense but not a custom either.

yes it defines custom for a show but alterations do not a custom make.

 

luego

 

Que te via bien

 

I consider that mine fits in as a custom when I need it to.

Mostly I chose this kind of car because I like the styling and the cool cruiser aspect. I certainly didn't go this way because I wanted to go faster... I just wanted to go cooler. I agree with @Crazy Steve , a Rod was all about performance and a Custom was all about design (re-designing away from factory). I feel that either of those conversations has two elements when talking about what is 'traditional'. Again I feel that @Crazy Steve , the era does count for a lot. Back in the day car modifiers took what had been designed and built by a major car manufacturer, and altered it using far less machinery technology, using their own vision but with greater care and attention to detail. Mass production caters to the market. Those who were custom car-minded modified to suit their own wants. The second aspect is we tend not to compare apples with apples as ... the build quality of Rods & Customs is far different today than it was back then. While the external appearance is similar the cars generally don't compare as skills and technology (and access to it) got better. The traditional conversation I believe is generally about the general appearance rather than individual componentry brand, make or era, etc...

One thing that appealed to me about the '39 was that it is indeed an 82 year old car. For me the origin of the car was important. Then to have it modified (with 'todays' technology & ability) and have it in keeping with an era was appealing. Each of our cars has its own story and that is important as well, they all began somewhere and have been on a journey. I often think about all the places it has been (in the US and here in Australia) and all the stories it could tell. I get it !! .. with the number of surviving bodies diminishing and parts becoming scarce that reproduction parts and bodies are a necessity. Reproduction has extended the life of this hobby to another generation, such parts definitely increase safety and reliability on the road... I get it.

My '39 .... sympathetic re-styling in design, to the '40 below. Mine has some performance improvements, but mainly about driveability and engine efficiency.


Original styling '40 Merc...I couldn't find an era pic of a '39 from a similar angle.


For me, I tend only to refer to the '39 Merc as a custom if I am asked in conversation 'is that a custom car?' or when I am entering it into a display/show and I need to put it in a category. Mostly I consider it my cool 82 year old sled/cruiser that makes me smile every time I drive it. Sometimes running Moonshine comes into the conversation. Hopefully, it makes others smile when they see it and my wife and I, like that aspect of the car scene.

Our hobby has survived from the post-WWII era until today and that is a great achievement in itself . While my kids are mildly interested in our cars, their take on Rods & Customs and performance cars is quite different. Putting an old head on young shoulders is difficult at the best of times. Certainly, people tried to do that to the youth in the '50s when they were building the cars we love today. That in itself is another conversation entirely and there is a good thread on HAMB about 'why are custom cars dying out'. Plenty of good reading there by some very experienced people.

Getting back to the question in the first post... I feel that when we try to define the meaning of something which was very freelance in its day, we will all (70 years on) have differing views and applications based on our own experience. That's ok because the debate is a foundation of understanding and essential for building knowledge.

A short quote which I like....

"Nothing is more heart-warming to the custom-minded than a simple alteration, requiring a minimum of time, which results in a complete "new look" that is both gratifying to the car owner and enhances the appearance of the car itself"
George Barris (Custom Car Chronicle, 1953)


@OzMerc39