Technical ‘50 Flathead… Oil in the starter!

As mentioned. It important the starter grounds against the bellhousing/block where the bolts screw into the threaded holes. Remove any paint on that surface. I’d try even temporarily removing the battery and running a shorter battery cable.

 

The amount of work and parts changes required wouldn't make it worthwhile to us a 59A block in a 50 Ford.
What you have is a stock 8BA block and distributer set up with stock pumps.

 

If you are using a voltmeter to measure voltage drop, (as you should) you can use a long jumper wire that doesn't have to be heavy gauge. A 14 or 16 gauge wire would be more than sufficient. I taught electrical troubleshooting on heavy trucks. We used at least 10 foot jumpers so that we could read all voltages relative to the battery pack.

 

You’re totally right… can’t believe I didn’t think that through!!! (My original trade was electronics.. that was 45 years ago, and this probably explains why it’s not my current trade!!!)
The voltmeter itself is extremely high impedance, so the extra resistance in a long piece of 12 or 14 gauge is irrelevant.
Thanks for the insight!

 

I think I may be beginning to solve the mystery (of the oil filler at least, not the starting issue) Firstly, I have to say that this discussion has been hugely informative and educational for me, thanks for all the contribution!

Offenhauser have two 3x2 intake manifolds… one listed as 32-41 has the breather tubes with the filler tube in the center and the breather on the right (appears to be what I have), and 42-48 with no breather holes. There are also two different gaskets… one listed 49-53 has straight angles sides, with a square cutout on the right for the breather and a smaller round cutout in the left front corner for the filler inlet. The other is listed 32-48 has a more skeletal cutout and fully open at the front. Looking at photos of an 8BA block, the internal filler tube is at the front left corner…
I checked my manifold and it appears to have the 49-53 gasket (I can see the straight angled sides below the manifold.
I’m wondering if the 49-53 gasket is blocking the filler because the filler on the manifold is in the center, while the hole in the gasket is in the right front corner?
It looks like the filler on the manifold won’t actually align with the internal filler tube, so Fitting a filler at the rear on the fuel pump mount is still the most practical solution, but right now, I appear to have somewhere for it to exhale, but it can’t actually inhale!!!

Offenhauser 3x2 by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:05 AM

Offenhauser 3x2 by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:05 AM

50 Flathead intake gasket by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:11 AM

8BA block by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:05 AM

Offenhauser gaskets by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:05 AM

 

Well, I thought I was figuring out… they also have a 49-53 intake which has the filler in the center, and looks like the internal port goes to the front right to line up with the internal filler tube.

I can see this intake coming off next! Might as well resolve it properly and figure out what’s going on.

Offenhauser 49-53 intake by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 9:52 AM

 

Is that intake cracked?
9A5547CD-F906-4B05-B35A-C676B3DE5F14 by Travis Brown, on Flickr

You have to make sure that the vent and filler are open so the engine can breath properly. Otherwise, it causes all sorts of problems and leaks.

 

good pick up! Yes, it is. All the more reason to take it off. It looks like it’s just at the base of the casting that receives the filler tube but I can’t see how far round it goes. If it’s not too bad, I may be able to grind the crack open a little and repair it with JB Weld. Let’s see when it come off.

 

I would try some of that aluminum (really it's probably a tin alloy) stick solder stuff, that you can apply with a propane torch.
The intake may have been dropped or someone may have forced that steel filler pipe on. Keep that in mind. If the pipe is indeed clear, and or not crooked, I would consider fixing the crack without removing the pipe.

 

The starter issue.....
Make sure that you are using the proper size cable.
Make sure all the connections are clean and shiny from the battery to the solenoid (starter relay) and from the solenoid to the starter.
Make sure the ground cable to the block is a good size and the connection there is clean.
You do not have to use the massive cables that a 6V system requires but the run of the mill cables from the parts store are not adequate, even for older American 12 vehicles.....That stuff is for Hondas.

While 6V starter can function well on 12V, the Bendix does hit very hard. Sometimes the Bendix or ring gear gets damaged.

Also check the flywheel ring for bad teeth.

I don't think this is your problem as it pretty obvious but the wrong starter plate (48-52 Ford Truck or pre 49 car) can cause a lot of trouble. It's pretty obvious as the starter will be crooked to the engine with the truck plate.

 

I’ll see how significant the crack is once I remove it. The filler tube needs to be extended (and likely another bend) as it currently sits right below the alternator and the breather cap won’t fit on properly right now.
Thx.

 

Yep. That’s my next set of checks once the starter is back in. I noticed the ground from the chassis to the starter was secure but there’s a lot of flex at the connector, so there could be so strands broken inside the cable. I’ll go over everything from the battery forward.

 

On the starter issue: removed and cleaned the starter, reinstalled. Removed and ground the ground lead connection at the starter and chassis to bare metal. (Broke off the crappy 1/4” bold on the chassis side, so drilled and tapped a new 5/16” connection point.)
Starter is now working fine.
Appreciate all the comments and advice.

 

do you have the little bracket that goes to one of the oil pan bolts ?

 

On the oil filler issue: Mystery solved!
Removed the intake, and the gasket is blocking the oil inlet breather, so it’s been exhaling OK but hasn’t been able to inhale!
The breather out tube on the RHS (that has the tube that outlets down beside the oil pan) is cast around back of the inlet tube, and lines up with the round hole in the front left (that would have originally been intended for the inlet tube), and the breather tube inside the block that on the LHS that takes air in to the crankcase, has been removed.
The inlet breather on the Offenhauser intake goes straight down vertically to a smaller hole in the front center, however, the gasket has no hole to accommodate this, so it’s just totally blocked by the gasket!!!
See photos below.
I’ll order the correct gasket, which will allow the front to breathe. I have already ordered a breather tube for the rear fuel pump flange.
The only remaining issue I see is that both breathers will only suck air into the top end, since the internal breather tube to the crankcase was removed. Any thoughts on whether this is OK? It doesn’t feel right to me not having positive flow directed down to the crankcase and then flowing back to the top end and out.
To fix this, I’d need to fabricate a new breather, since it would need to bend through two close 45’s to line up with the inlet, and then be reduced to the smaller diameter. The inlet on the intake is also just rough cast, so it would need to be milled to receive the new tube.
Last item… what appeared to be a crack on the casting of the inlet tube turned out to just be dirt, however, there is a small vertical crack on the other side where they fitted the inlet tube. (I also need to make up an extension for the inlet, with a 45 so it will come up beside the alternator.)
Again, thanks for all the advice and education on this topic!

50 Flathead intake removed gasket in place by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead intake & gasket removed by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead Offenhauser intake layout by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead Offenhauser intake gasket in place by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead Offenhauser intake gasket offset by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead Offenhauser intake LH breather by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

50 Flathead Offenhauser intake RH breather by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM

 

Yep. Without that one, I’d be pretty worried about the starter only hanging from those two through bolts!

 

Interestingly, when I looked at which gasket to order, of the two Offenhauser 3x2 gaskets listed, it looks like the one listed as 1932-48 is going to be the one I need. Seems like they originally used what they assumed was the correct one (1949-53) but didn’t notice that it was blocking the oil inlet breather!
Although, it seems like they removed the internal breather tube because it would have lined up with the breather outlet???
Bizarre!!!

Offenhauser gaskets by 18tillidie posted Jun 20, 2021 at 8:05 AM

 

The other issue is that the alternator bracket has absolutely no adjustment in it, and is cracking the casting on the inlet. I’ll need to grind down the top of the lips on the casting and mill the slot on the bracket a bit higher.

50 Flathead alternator bracket by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 10:48 AM

50 Flathead alternator bracket by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 11:01 AM

 

Hey 18 ,
This is the tube that goes into the hole in the tappet chamber in the right front .
Several guys here,,,or on the barn should have an extra to sell really cheap,,,,just ask them .
This is mine and how it looked at removal,,,kind of dirty,,,,but it is in perfect shape .

Tommy

 

Thanks, if anyone does have a spare, please let me know. I’m confused over whether the original configuration had the inlet or the outlet connected to the inner tube.
I also posted on the barn as well, so hopefully something turns up.

 

I found this… not sure if it’s a Ford diagram, but it does look like the vent tube from the crankcase goes to the outlet breather. That makes sense with the intake configuration.

Engine air circulation by 18tillidie posted Jun 26, 2021 at 11:09 PM

 

Hey Desoto,
Can you do me a favor and measure the dimensions on that breather if you get a chance. If it’s just basically a straight tube, if it’s the same diameter as the inlet vent on the outside, I picked up a length of 1 3/8 stainless tube today to make a 45 degree extension to the oil filler so it come out and up beside the alternator… if it’s the same diameter, I may be able to make one up.
Does it seat on a lip at the bottom of the receiving hole, or does it flare out at the bottom end of the tube to prevent it going in too far?
Difficult to tell from your photo. I’ll take a look in the morning and see how it’s configured.
Thx,
Tim.

 

Tommy, I checked it this morning and it’s 1 5/16” on both ends, and there’s a lip at the bottom of the hole that it seats against.

bummer that it’s not 1 3/8” like the external tube! I could still make one up if one doesn’t turn up here.

thanks,
Tim.

 

Hi Tim ,
Yeah you’re right,,,,,,if you study the Ford diagram,,,,,it shows that the tube really completes the evacuation system .
Air is drawn in through the top and had to travel the entire way to the pan and back up out the draft tube .
Otherwise the air is drawn in and would immediately be sucked right back out without completely venting the crankcase .
I think that tube is essential for a complete venting ,,,,,at least if using a standard draft tube .
A PCV system would work fine without it,,,but few use that type of system .

Like I said,,,,ask around here and on the barn,,,,,,several have these laying around.
Usually they will send you one for the price of shipping ,,,,,some good guys here .
A really good member sent me the shields in the tappet chamber for like 7 bucks shipping.
Ask around,,,,these guys care.
Good luck man .

Tommy

 

With huge thanks to FlatheadJohn47 in Texas, who had a spare internal breather tube! It needed to be cut down a little, but now all cleaned, fitted up and ready for the intake to go back on!

B169AA5D-05DF-4F0B-8B98-82395CC0484E by 18tillidie posted Jul 8, 2021 at 8:22 PM