Hi y'all, I am hoping someone can help me out here. I am hoping to get my 29 Tudor squared up and aligned so I can finish the chop and get the wood installed. In this process I want to get the aprons, running boards, fenders, and hood all installed and make sure everything is as it should be prior to aligning the body and squaring it all up so I can finish the A pillars and window openings. That being said... This project has an earlier TCI frame that I believe is missing many of the mounting holes for the fenders/hood shelves/front apron. To compound my problem, the fenders are earlier Wescott pieces and likewise have no indents or markers to indicate where the mounting holes should be located. Does anyone have a stock frame they would be willing to take some measurements off of for me so that I can at least have some starting point as to where everything should land? Also if anyone has a photo of the placement/alignment of the fender and apron prior to the hood shelf being installed? That would be super helpful as well. I really need these parts installed in their proper place so that I can fit the body and get the rear fenders properly installed because I am pretty sure they were not put on correctly either (also did not have holes or any indication of where they should be drilled when my dad put them on). Pic for attention..
What holes are in your frame so we can give you a measurement based off that land mark? I can snap some photos and measurements sometime today most likely. And my hood shelves are just laying on top not bolted on so it’s no big deal
Thanks Tim, the nearest exposed hole would be the radiator mounting holes on either end of the front crossmember. I believe there is one hole drilled (not tapped or nutted with no access hole in the frame boxing) on the top of the frame rail somewhere around there (I think toward the rear?) but I'm at work presently and don't recall it's exact location. But yea, best reference point would be the radiator mounting holes (will be easy enough to snap a line through them to use as reference for any measurements anyone can offer).
Cool I should be able to make that work, my fenders are on but those are the holes You seem most concerned with any how so any extras shouldn’t be a big deal?
Tim, this would probably help many of us who boxed our frames and somehow lost track of the holes beneath the subframe extension beneath the cowls. Thanks for doing this.
Correct. It's mainly the two holes at the frame horns where the two bolts go through the hood shelf and fender in to the radiator apron (looks like theres a third hole in original fenders?), and any holes in the top of the frame rail that the fender will be mounted. I have a photo of where the holes are on the steel fenders, but who knows how proportionally correct my glass fenders are so I'd rather start with correct placement on the frame and fit the aprons and that should determine where the fenders should be...
I’ll turn this into something you can actually read tonight. But I got three reference points and a shit load of measurements
Ok so for reference this is the spot I’m measuring I tried to get all the bolts in one photo sorry For the weird angle i wanted to point out that in the front the center bolt holds only the fender while the other two with the captive nuts hold the hood shelf, fender and the front apron
This is showing what each section of the drawing is. This is 0% to scale its just a scribble. Brown is the frame. The front cross member I showed the flanged edge that extends toward the motor with a thin set of parallel lines. I used the points were the part of the cross member that holds the spring meets the frame rail as a reference point because my radiator mount holes are slightly ovaled. I also used the metal edge of the cowl subrail shown in blue. I think stock a piece of wood goes on top of this piece. You can see it in the reference photo in the last post on so hopefully this all got translated from pencil Scribble to tablet scribble. Red are holes, blue are measurements and black are actual edges
Oh! And the two holes in the side aprons, they go to a bracket that bolts to the frame. It has slotted holes and those holes are for the hood shelves. I also think that the frame had two sets of the 2 holes just behind the crossmember. Same staggered spacing and etc but set further outboard. No idea if this is on all frames or why it’s there but figure it would Be worth mentioning. I probably have a Photo in my build thread that shows it
WOW! Tim I cant thank you enough, that is the most help I have ever gotten on the HAMB! Last night I spent a few hours with a floor jack and some long punches and screw drivers and aligned the body with the mount holes in the frame so with your references to the end of the cowl section of the subrail I should be able to mark all of these holes in the frame and get them tapped (for now, I'll weld nuts in later). My frame has a '32 crossmember so unfortunately that part wont help too much, BUT with all the other measurements I think I got'er licked now. I think the measurement that's going to be almost as helpful, that I could only find reference to on an AA Truck restoration site, is that inside edge of the frame to the edge of the apron, and the edge of the fender measurement! I cant thank you enough for including that! With the damn upper shock mounts on this frame and the poorly made Wescott fender braces, Idk how it's going to get that gap. Right now I have the fender following the inside edge of the frame rail and the clearance on the upper shock mount is basically zero at the lower transition from where the fenders mounting flange turns up (good thing I was planning to cut those off and replace them with the F-1 style shock mounts). So its very possible these fenders just need some trimming on that flat flange. Seriously, cant thank you enough! Probably going to order a set of hood shelves that already have the latch mount holes predrilled so that will help ensure I have things in the right place. Does anyone know the proper name for the welting strip that goes around the edge of the hood shelves?
The two sets of two holes are for the front hood hooks. One pattern is for 28-9 and one pattern is for 30-1. I'm not sure if only the late frames came with both sets of holes, or if Ford was pre-planning and knew where their late-model holes would go too.
Shoot I can’t think of the name off the top of my head. They use it everywhere in old fords but a lot of people don’t use it. I know Snyder’s carried the hood shelves for pretty cheap and have been good to deal with over the phone. something also worth mentioning is the holes are bigger than some of the hardware I’m using so there is some wiggle room in there so if it feels like it could move a little this way or that to work better just move it
I don't know for certain, and hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in, but I think you have '30-'31 fender braces rather than the forged '28-29.
28phonebooth, the forged ones are early 28 they made the stamped ones for 28/9 as well as the 30/1. I have a set of both the forged and the stamped 28/9 irons and they both fit exactly the same
This page from Wescotts may help too.. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatalog/Tech/FrameDiagram1928-31.pdf
After looking, they are the correct stamped braces, the 30/31's look entirely different 29: 30-31: Thank you! That will definitely help since that front body mount hole is a great concrete reference point, and its relation to the hood latch support bracket holes should give me exactly what I need paired with Tim's measurements!
Look's like you have enough information, but if you can wait, I can do a tracing of the holes in a frame I have and send it to you. The stamped fender brackets were put into production in April of 1929.
Wow that really would be a fantastic help as well! and really eliminate guesswork or the possibility that my reference point or alignment of my body on the frame may be skewed/different from where Tim's is!
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