Hot Rods Is this the wrong place for a new guy? Suicide front end stuff.

X2 with most everything that’s been said here. The only thing I can add is if the end result is getting out on the road make sure you have the proper paperwork. I like many others have spent 100’s of hours only be to stopped in my tracks by the BMV. It seems every state is different but if you know what getting a title requires in your state, you may be able to save some headaches if by gathering the proper documentation along the way.

 

ras, unfortunately these parts didn't come with a title, and here in CA it's a huge PITA to get one done. Consequently, this one might never get driven. Titles go for big bucks here. Probably not going to stop me; I like wrenching on them too much.

So...let's see if I can figure out how to post pics.
This is how she looks now. That spring perch (right term?) is TALL. The car previously had a straight model T axle. I plan on using a 4" drop tube, for no other reason than simplicity and I've never had a car with a 4"dropped tube axle. Or for that matter, a front axle.


I believe these are flathead mounts? They're not staying. Front crossmember holes were filled...I believe the front crossmember is centered on the same spot as the original. Frame is not fully boxed. I'm still undecided on front suspension. I've never heard anything good about suicide front ends...I've also never heard tell of an accident involving them; just heard lots of stories about the potential for bad things. If I go suicide, that perch needs removal.


The rear of the frame has been kicked up and retains the original crossmember...and some really ugly what I guess are possibly coil spring mounts? They're not staying.


Turtledeck. It just covers up the business card of the 'glass layer that is embedded in the passenger door analog. I don't know that I'll be able to read it, but if I can I'll post. Is it normal to use these types of screws to secure the body to the supporting wood? This looks terrible to me.


It's faint, but this said "Lancaster", which is a couple hours away from me. Maybe somebody in SoCal has seen this car before?


If I remember correctly, the car was set up for Corvair steering, using a reversed-steering box.

I took the advice given on the Bishop and Tardel book, and I'm reading it now. I'm not new to this, but I have zero practical experience. I've spent decades thinking about it, and now that I'm practically dead I've finally decided to jump in feet first and screaming. Here's the book I already had, and spent much time reading (any old timers in Sacramento will know that price label and how badly it dates me):

 

The rear x member is a bonus. Run a trad rear spring.
Rework that front spring mount and rock on.
Looks like it was set up to run a stock drop axle and they built the mount that tall.

 

Don't forget, most people are happy to tell you horror stories so that's what you will hear. The good stories about suicide fronts are the ones to take notice of.

 

I forgot to add, if you've got thin skin and no sense of humour you're in deep shit on this forum.

 

Looks like you have some good pieces to start, I would look at paul's (post 22) build thread, a shining example of what can be done with vintage parts, a lot of thought and hard work !

 

You have the desire to use a 4" dropped axle, depending on the height of the front end, for clearance issues, the tie rod might have to be in front, causing problems with Ackermann. Lots to think about here.

 

Hey 55 is a good time to start. I started for real about the time the pandemic hit. I was working from home and bored to tears, so joined the HAMB. Also decided like you that it was time to finally get to work on a hot rod, for the first time. These guys have been a wealth of information AND very inspirational. I'm encouraged daily to keep chugging along. And while I keep saying that I'm going to take up a new hobby and sell everything, the truth is that I have gotten so many great ideas for the Whatever project from all the projects and comments to mine.

Keep an open mind and laugh with everyone... It's fun!

 

The only issue with that style of "suicide" front end is the quality of the welds on that spring perch plus having the correct diameter and strength of steel tubing. That setup can't drop any further than than the axle and the perch will catch on the axle on the way down.
Here is the "suicide" front end that they have been telling you is dangerous. If it is or isn't may depend a lot on on exactly how the perches were mounted as that is usually the issue.
Note that on the blue T the spring is several inches behind the axle and there is no part of the frame or front perch that will catch on the axle on the way down.

The bottom two photos are what most of us see as a more standard T bucket suicide perch than what you have now. Note that both wrap almost half way around the axle giving a lot of weld surface. The second one is a do it yourself idea done by a dude who goes by Hot Rod Tod that built his T from scratch I'll post the link for reference because it doesn't show how to do anything wrong that I can see. Hot Rod Todd (t-buckettodd.blogspot.com)
Taking his style of perch you could design one that came out the exact height that you wanted.

Title, that is an assembled vehicle in Cali or anywhere else for that matter if you do it legal. That means keep every receipt and bill of sale for all major parts in a binder to prove that you legally own them for a start.

 

Hey six, here's a thread that tells about Cal titles. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...fication-in-california.1132905/#post-12867452 Page 2 talks about 500 smog exemptions each year. Keep your receipts. Have you inspected your frame for serial numbers? If numbers are there it might qualify for a bonded title.

 

I have not--that's a great idea, and thank you for the Cali titling link. I've heard horror stories about the "500 Titles" fights and battles.

 

Just so I'm not confusing myself--because I am so damned new at this--did you mean to say half way around the crossmember, vice axle? And thank you for the links!

 

Those days are long over. It is not hard to get a SCV title now. You just need to follow the rules.

 

It really is not.

That frame would have had a serial number stamped on it in the factory. On US frames they were very rarely skipped.

It is on the left frame rail, behind the front body mount, or where it was. Clean your frame and see if you have one.

Also, you cannot buy a title and use it on a vehicle. Once a title and a vehicle are separated, you have a decorative piece of paper, and a (possibly) rolling sculpture.

Using the title from one vehicle on another one is a Federal felony.

 

I run a suicide front end on my '27 roadster with a spring in front of the axle. Put quite a few miles on it in the last 3 years with nary a problem. Stock '38 ford front end.



The spring in front looks OK 'cause it's hidden by the track nose.....



As far as titling the car, as Gimpy stated look for the serial # on the frame. If that doesn't pan out, you can always title it as a SPCNS (Specially Constructed Vehicle). It's really not that hard if you build it according to, and follow the rules. Here's my basic step-by-step article on registering a car under the SB100 rule (SPCNS).......
Technical - Registering as a Specially Constructed Vehicle in California. | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Yours is the example of success I think of when this topic comes up.

 

I'm at work right now...and I'm SOOOOOO tempted to go home and look! I'm off at midnight, but I know what I'm doing now. This is very good information--thank you! I was still under the impression CA was still under that old 500 titles/annual program. I appreciate the link, gimpy!

If I'm honest with myself, this car is eventually going to be a 1927-esque roadster. I'm jonesing for a Model A roadster of some sort (and I know that a 1927 isn't a Model A). Yours is absolutely gorgeous, evintho! I'll build it as a bucket and get some learning/experience in...but roadsters make me feel funny.

 

…and no serial number that I can see. Heavy sigh.

 

Here in New Hampshire, all you have to do is go to the DMV and get a "hot rod" title & registration. You don't even have to take the car with you, they don't care if it has a serial number, nor do they mind open wheels. live free or die, baby

 

Looks like the (SPCNS) SB100 process is in your future!

 

Sure, but we don't have Winter.

 

It's not a slap in the face. Your response was spot on!

 

Start collecting documentation on your purchase to build this now.

 

Personally I would put it together as a roller, sell it off and get to work on your Model A and build what you actually want making sure you have the Model A titled before spending a cent on it else where.

 

I lived in L.A. for 13 years, That was enough madness to make me long for winter. Besides, when snowed in, we have more time to focus on our hot rod projects (and we have better IPA).

 

I lived in New England for 29-years.

That was too long for me.

 

Yessir. Thank you so much for documenting your experience.

 

Started—thank you.

 

The minute you engineer front-end bump stops the suicide angle goes away.

I love winter; can't stand summer. I live in one of the very few places in Africa which has a decent winter.

 

The ultimate answer to the suicide debate is Total Performance. I can't imagine how many of those things are on the road to this day and I never remember hearing of a failure.

Your project is a great start and can be super traditional to say the least. I built this one a few years ago, (not TP, one of my frames patterned on a model A). Obviously just roller tires shown here!