I am picking up from this thread: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/292-y-block-valve-spring-removal.1245880/ with a title that is more correct. I want to know why it won't turn before I make a decision to rehab it or ditch it for a 390FE. My goal in this project is a reliable cruiser - I am not trying to make a dragster or performance machine out of a Mercury Monterey 4-door sedan. Here is the bottom of '62 y-block. As I have posted previously, I beat on it with a stick and got it to move back and forth for about 10 minutes (maybe 1/2 ~ 1 inch of piston travel) and then it just stopped. I beat on it some more and cranked some more, but nothing has budged since. I have finally gotten the motor out and onto a stand - but I do not have the front cover off yet. I will update when I get that taken care of. I see nothing obvious, but I am not sure I know what I am looking for. The timing chain slides back and forth over the pully at the front, but I can't get pull it away to slide anything under there. Nothing wiggles or rattles. The oil pump had oil in it - and turns - and considering it has been sitting since 1984, I thought the bottom had a reasonable amount of oil on it (I wiped some off before I took pictures). And for those of you who were wondering - YES it dumped another quart-plus of coolant when I tuned it over. This thing just keeps on giving me brown orange skanky water to mop up.
Wonder what's up w/ the red rod cap? That's a bit strange. Did you lube the cylinder walls before you started hammering on it? Like pouring a little ATF or Marvel down the spark plug holes? I imagine the rings are pretty stuck after 37 years of sitting up. Condensation is enough to do it. Joe
I gave it all of the PB Blaster Max and Liquid Wrench it could drink. #1 oil would disappear after a day or two and #6 would take a week or so to drink it down. The other cylinders were still holding the oil I put in there weeks ago. I put a 3 inch diameter straight tree branch from my wood pile and whacked it with a 2lb hammer. As I said - they broke free and moved back and forth some for a time - then they decided to stop - probably about 3/4 of a inch from where I started.
You have rust on the cylinder walls. Engines "breathe" with temperature changes when in storage and atmospheric air has moisture in it which condenses on cold surfaces. Having lived in WA for a winter I can tell you about humidity. The fact that it moved then stuck again and the Blaster won't leak down is proof it's rusty in there. Remove the heads and all the rod caps you can get the nuts off of. Insert a wooden stick under the pistons with the caps off and see if you can start getting them out the top. If rust is bad above the pistons you may have to hone them down as far as you can to clear a path for them. Usually only the cylinders with open valves will rust enough to cause a big problem. It would be advisable to check the block and heads for cracks and surface flatness to make sure it will seal properly when you put it back together. The steel head gaskets used in these engines don't like any out of spec flatness issues or crud on the surfaces. Even a small area of sealant on the surfaces can cause a leak on these engines. Be sure, however, to use a good quality gasket sealer on those head gaskets. Ford used shellac, which works well.
I think Glenn has it right, you’re just going to fight it apart a piston at a time. I suspect you're only going to find a couple that are really stuck hard. Is there anywhere you can get an idea about how much ridge you’ve got? As a last resort, try first a 5 and then a 10 lb hammer. Be careful not to damage the journals with the rod bolts.
The first picture is the worst of the ridge (#1 & #6 both look about the same ... these are the cylinders that drank lubricating oil like a sieve and which have smokey exhaust ports). The rest are not as bad. With my finger, this cylinder ridge feels about like a piece of printer paper - maybe a little heavier (so that is 0.1mm or 4 thousandths ... maybe .15mm / 6 thou). They are not as bad as the paper stock they use for the label in a tool package (which is probably 4 times printer paper thickness). The other 6 cylinders have a ridge which ranges something like half that down to barely feel-able. The second picture is about typical rust pattern on the 'downhill' side of the cylinders. The side that is the outside of the "Y". At least for the 4 that are low enough I can see it. You can see that ridge is not nearly as heavy as above.
I will try that tomorrow or Thursday. I also need to go borrow a puller to remove the damper so I can get the front off.
You said you had it moving a little... have you tried just putting a breaker bar on the crank pulley and gently working it back and forth? That's what did it for my stuck engine.
I tried that a lot - even used a cheater bar. Oil, hammer, crank for days and days while I worked on other car stuff. At this point since the engine is out, the heads are off, and the crank case is open - I am shifting to other methods.
Check to see if you have any crankshaft end play, if you do have end play, there is a good chance that the main bearings are not causing the seizure. Same for the connecting rods, see if they have any side play on the crank journal. If they move within their side clearance, they are not the cause of the seizure. My thought is the pistons are stuck in their bores.
I think I would unbolt the rod caps and cover the rod bolts w/fuel line. Pull the crank and get 'em out from the bottom end, tapping from the top after continuous oiling until they come out. May take some time but be patient and work on it a little each day. It all has to be disassembled anyway to have the bores checked out by a machinist. Joe
Here is (left to right) #1 & #5 after I wiped some oil off of them. There is side-play in the rod+crank journal everywhere. About equal to the thickness a household flathead screwdriver blade. I saw some of the connecting rods move side to side, but I have not checked all of them yet. I will need to get creative to get some of the caps off - they may need to wait until I can turn it into a 4-cylinder.
I had an engine, been sitting for a while, had the same symptoms.. After a total strip down, found the wrist pins had seized/corroded in the pistons.. Disassembling and cleaning fixed them..
Is that rust on the timing chain? With all the pieces that go in the links there's a lot of surface area to be frozen tight.
I have never done this, but, I knew a guy who unfroze a Model A by dumping Coke a Cola in the bores before oiling. Took a few days, but he got it running & it ran good. .02cents/nonsence Just say'n.
Each of the stuck "Y"s I've been able to turn after lib amounts of PB-Blaster for a few days an engine on a stand,so I roll it to right n left,plus up side down. When it's heads off,like yours. Lub lifters an cam as well. I use a prybar/giant screwdriver on flywheel teeth pryoff bellhousing bolts/stand bolts,work back n forth flywheel tell ,after a time all the way around. Often even just a 1/2 turn is enough to remove all the pistons/rods. For the most part,your engine looks fairly clean,has been rebuilt at least one time already. Dosen't matter the Brand of engine,if they lay around long enough,most get stuck. I like "Y" block Fords. Also own SBC n other brands.
All 8 pistons are OUT - tapped them out with a wooden hammer handle. #4 was the worst offender - for that I needed a short 2x4 and about 6 whacks with a regular claw hammer. One ring was either broken - or got broken in the process. Ended up using a screwdriver in the ring gear to turn the engine enough to free the connecting rods from the pinch betweeen the crank & the block.
It is certainly rust on the timing chain - there is also some slop in it, but that is not what is / was keeping it stuck. Need to get the damper / balancer off so I can remove the water pump + front cover - and then finish the breakdown.
now that the pistons are out, does the crank turn? The red rod end is probably coated with copper, I've seen that on several rods from this era. it's a factory thing, nothing to be concerned about. Id be interested to see the back of a rod bearing. The 292 in the 59 Edsel I did 5 years ago had original date coded bearings in it, they were fine, so I put them back in. I did replace the cam bearings, as that was causing the lack of oil to the rockers.
The crank & cam turn. #4 cylinder was a rusty mess - #7 was about half as bad - the rest were fine (at least as far as that goes for having sat for 37 years). There was one broken ring (on #7 I think, but I can't remember now). I am not sure if that was there before - or after knocking it out of the cylinder. The ring gap is really big on some - bigger than I expected to see but I have not looked up the numbers to see what they are supposed to be. Aside from the surface rust, the cylinders look pretty good. I will see how they look after cleaning (and maybe honing) them. I need to do some parts clean up and then I will get pics of the pistons and cylinders. There are stamps/marks on the bearings. The rods & caps were stamped with their number. Having gotten this far, looking at the brake/gas/clutch pedals /driver seat - I think this thing has 50K miles and I am the first person to take it apart. The crank and cam look good. I am sure some of the "cam followers?" are stuck - there is not enough music when I turn the rotisserie. My lament at the moment is that I dropped a rod bolt somewhere and I don't want to crawl around and find it. It is not in the engine. I will clean up my disgusting garage floor and find that before I pull the damper, dubious water pump, and the front cover.
As it turned out - it wasn't much of a fight. 6 of them more or less fell out with a little tapping from a hammer handle. 1 was REALLY stuck, and 1 other was kinda stuck - and that was enough to keep me from turning at the damper. They broke free via a screwdriver on the ring gear.
Usually if a piston is stuck pretty well, the rust is bad enough to require a rebore. But not always. If you run a hone through the rusty bores, you can get an idea how pitted they are. Unfortunately you're likely to find pitting that's too deep and too much of it to just hone and put new rings in.
Nice thing about 292’s in over bore pistons .030”, .040”, .050” (312 std) .060” are readily available.
SO - I won't repost pictures of the pistons above - but how do I get the rings out of the grooves? Of the 24 rings I have, abour 3 of them have come out whole (i.e. the middle ring) and 3 of them have partially come out in pieces (i.e. the top ring). The rest are holding firm to where they are. I have Zep'd and scraped and scrubbed, but it doesn't seem to change the grime & grease which is holding them fast. I also found some small pitting of 1 piston (like a dozen spots the size of a ball point dot) - not sure how much is too much. I have not gotten time to pull the balancer + water pump + timing cover / chain + crank + cam and giving the cylinders a quick hone + measuring them.
The Jalopy Journal
