Hot Rods Want To Buy A MIG & Separate TIG Welder..Need Suggestions

The title says it all. Years back I had a couple dozen hours experience with a Miller TIG welder, doing mostly 4130 tubing on Midgets and Sprint cars. I have about an hour's
experience with a MIG, and got good enough with an oxy-acetylene torch to do a couple of feet of aluminum scrap. I'll take a class on TIG welding and within a few months should get good enough to trust my welds. I have literally no experience with the MIG but see that it would really be useful for making jigs, tool stands, and on and on.
I want to build a whole car, frame, aluminum body, suspension, etc. I plan on spending several weeks with Wray Schelein (Pro Shaper) in learning the basics of the English wheel and power hammer.
I fully understand that 'back in the day' a person could become a journeyman machinist in five years, and it took seven to become a coach builder.
I know my way around a lathe and Bridgeport and can hack out basic stuff as I spent a few years as an apprentice at Grant King's race car shop in Indianapolis, so I can cope tubing, and fit things together, etc.
So now that I'm in my golden years I want to buy my own MIG and TIG and will shortly hone my aluminum welding skills with an oxy-acetylene outfit. I've purchased some of the Tin Man goggles (which are as close as it gets to the old Burt weld goggles used in WWII) so now I just need a bit more talent and a lot of hours with goggles and hood on.
I'm sure many of you are journeymen welders and looking for suggestions as what TIG and MIG to buy. I'd settle for an old Miller TIG if I could find one as that's what my basic skills were done with.
I previously wanted to become a violin-maker an spent over 3,000 hours 'at the bench' learning how to construct one, and did make two. I convinced two masters to take me on as an apprentice and the experience was magnificent. But I don't want to do more. I've always been enamored with aluminum car bodies and have all the respect in the world for what it takes to learn to shrink and stretch. Thus I have the tenacity to see the job through and I can see it will take the next 3-5 years becoming fairly proficient at aluminum-metal fab in complex shapes.
So, what would you buy?

 

50% are going to say Miller, 40% will say Lincoln, 9% will say go low cost Chinese (under a dozen or more pop up brand names), and a few of us are going to say call Jeff at USA Weld and buy a couple of HTP welders.

 

I would say it depends on your space and power supply. The most reliable is the older transformer welders but they do have less features, are larger and hog more power.....but are bullet proof. I have a good MIG machine and I'm thinking about a TIG, but I'm on the fence about a inverter vs transformer unit. Then think about what you want the machine to do so you can get the output sizing right. If you have neither machine maybe a good quality new all in one inverter maybe a good choice.

 

The tendency to buy an entry level machine should be passed on. All the welders I've seen in the last few years are setup for the novice or back yard work especially if you're looking for something long term production. My mig welder is 30 years old and with normal maintenance has worked great, still working like a new one.

 

Cant help you out with a welder ,but certainly intrigued by your luthier abilities !!!!
Play a 1932 George Heinl violin . I have played a stradivarius in Heinls shop.locked doors and caged windows .What an experience.
Anyway back to your search !!!

 

My Hobart mig has been a great little welder. I primarily weld sheet metal.

 

Should mention ,I have had my Hobart mig ,15 yrs problem free

 

I was partly in your situation a few years ago, and bought a 15 year old Miller transformer TIG machine, it worked fine for what I wanted to do with it (mostly mild and chrome moly steel). If I had to do it again, I might spend the bucks for a name brand inverter machine. But I don't know how much disposable money you have. I think I gave 1200 for mine (syncrowave 180) it came with a bottle, and didn't have much use on it.

also...I have an old HTP 140 mig, it works ok, I got it 30 years ago....probably not relevant today.

 

Yes, you will get a lot of suggestions. But for the average home shop I like Hobart. They are owned by Miller and have like model coverage. Model for model the Hobart will have a slightly lower duty cycle, but usually not an issue for a home shop. I have a MIG with a standard lead and a spool gun, a TIG / stick combo, and a Plasma cutter. All Hobart. Never had any issues and I think they are a good value. Today you have a selection of inverter models as well. Mine are older transformer models, but I have 220 volt service in the shop.

 

Buy used Miller stuff.

Inverter stuff is nice and small, but older transformer models still work just fine.

My 21-year-old Miller TIG has put down about a half-ton of rod. I recently had a line leak in the water cooled torch, necessitating replacement. That was the only "repair". Aside from consumables/wear items, it has needed nothing.

My Miller MIG is the same age, and has move about twice the filler material by weight.

It had a major failure about a year-and-a-half ago. One of the front casters broke.

 

I also have a Hobart MIG, the equivalent of their Handler 190. Great welder. I have used a lot of Millers and Lincoln as well. Most folks have issues by buying too small of a machine. Avoid anything 110 if you can. For TIG I borrow time on my buddies Lincoln.

 

Some of the biggest considerations are not only the actual machines, but the whole package. Leasing bottles is not like the old days, when you could get a 99 year lease. If only welding thin stuff, a good machine is the Hobart Handler series. You should also consider a Mig that will at least have rollers to run .023 and .030 wire and a 10 pound spool will fit. If welding over 1/4" stuff, you want a machine that can run .035 wire
Newer Tig machines have a lot more range and features than the older ones. A good feature is adjustable pre and post gas flow. Some of the older Tig units (like my old Miller) can be gas hogs, and with the cost of Argon refills today, it can cost more in the long run.
Inverter vs. Transformer- each has advantages, but I don't have a preference. My old PowCon mig is inverter and I have run spool after spool thru it with no problems.

 

I have a 15 yrs old 175 Lincoln might, never had a problem and burned lots of wire thru it.

I have a power Weld 225 tig for 2 yrs now, no problems with it either. Ac/DC and everything is adjustable, pre/post flow, pulse, frequency etc.

.

 

Can't offer a real suggestion as to which brand to get but it's hard to go wrong with any of the major brands these days. I personally ended up with a cheap welder but spending quite a bit more and got a nice 20 series CK worldwide flex head torch and a HTP water cooler. I highly recommend going water cooled off you plan on doing any sustained welding, especially on thicker material or aluminum. Get a long lead on the torch too so your welder does not have to be attached at your hip.

Older transformer machines will live forever but are space and current hogs. It sounds like you are pretty serious so get a modern machine with variable frequency and a pulser. You can spend under $1000 on a cheap but functional offshore machine or spend 10k on an American machine with all the bells and whistles. Lots of options. I personally would figure out what you actually want and just spend the money once and be done.

The mig welder you can get fancy but honestly most name brand welders will do now days.

I know you said you want two separate machines, but one option I seriously considered was a Miller Multimatic 220 AC/DC. The way it is set up is that you basically get a MIG and TIG in one machine. Sperate torches, tanks, everything. Tack with one and weld with the other. Nothing to mess with. Supposed to be a nice machine. My worry would be if the shared power supply goes out you are screwed.

Good luck on your purchases. Keep us informed as you research specific options.

 

Lots of great suggestions and I have gained some knowledge,did not know Hobart
was Miller owned. I'll look for an old Miller as that's what I'm used to (even with my limited experience) and don't know if I'll really use the MIG much, but I'm a tool
freak so want to have it on hand. Plus, I've so much on YouTube of the guys who can slice and dice a top, or section a car, and the MIG's are their workhorse. I'm not smart enough to know where to pie cut a top to chop it, etc. and my main goal is to wheel and pound some aluminum. Here's a pic of the Golden Submarine built by Craig Naff, and I'm just sweetened by it. I (think) one would need a Pullmax to get that belt-line in but the rest of the car looks make-able with just talent, a wheel and a power hammer. It's the talent that's going to take the time, but now that I have a good right thumb I'm up for the job. I couldn't move my right thumb from age 10-42, then had an operation, it worked for 20 years, then snapped...had another operation, and she works fairly well now.

 

Oops sorry the tig is a prime Weld, not power Weld. Under 1k$ and excellent reviews. Reviews on YouTube also.

Watch some vids , read some reviews.

 

If you want the best advice on mig welding and welders, watch welding tips and tricks on YouTube, Cody is a wonderful instructor.

 

About the first week I was in the violin shop a Strad came in with the top loose, that happens every hundred years or so because we use half-strength glue on the top. They taught me how to make a pattern off the instrument (the Dushkin Strad), I did so and copied it to the millimeter to the best of my ability. It turns out that my first violin is an aberration..the masters said it was THE best sounding violin they've ever heard, and a member of the Indianapolis Symphony begged me to sell it to her..I let her play it for six years, then started lessons m'self. Now I have just been promoted to Second Chair in the Hanover College Symphony Orchestra with the same violin. Every pro who has played it says it is THE best sounding violin they've ever heard..I can't take much credit as I just copied the measurements, thicknesses on the Strad that came in the shop, and I got lucky on the wood, it was real, real old and had SO much flame, grain the master said, "It can't be bent," (for the ribs). He broke two I had carved, but my metal working experience, and loads of patience got the job done..I just had more patience with the bending iron, sort of like bending tubing with a torch. But it was just real scary carving the scroll (and the rest of the instrument) as it is all...subtraction. At least on my clay sculptures (cast in bronze later) I could add if I had to. Here's one of them, it's quarter scale, took 2,000 hours.

 

Blue

 

I’ve seen that ride in person and had the chance to talk to Mr Naff for quite a while about that car and his daughters 32.
Pics can hardly do it justice.
As far as tools, a pullmax would create the belt line. However. You can also create body lines with hammers only.
A pullmax P6 here locally was just sold with tooling for $3500.
Deals for equipment are out there. Ya just have to be lucky and ready when they pop up.
I like blue welders. Especially TIGs.
My Hobart MIG does all I need. If you have 220 power, buy a 220 machine.

 

I'm a Prime Weld fan. I used a Lincoln idealarc 300 for years. They are huge, power thirsty and do breakdown with use. The inverter welders put that to shame. However, you stated that you want to weld alum bodies. Learn to torch weld. Use 4043 bare rod and roll it in flux. It's an acquired skill. The alum gets a little shiney right before it falls on the floor. The reason that I mention this is the weld is the softest you will find. Hammer and dollie will be less miserable with this. If you look at dragster seats built in the 60's and part of the 70's, they were torch welded and hammered flat. Many are happy with the higher priced machines but if they break down, the repairs can be very pricey. Good luck with your chase for knowledge.

 

Word from the gent who used to do the repair work on the Millers we had in the fruit processing plant that I was the dude in charge of maintenance parts in was that Hobart was last years Miller in a different color. The same gent said that Miller, Hobart and Lincoln were owned by the same parent company and were sold though different outlets. Miller and Lincoln normally though welding supply Hobart usually though AG stores.
The main thing is that with any of the three you won't get laughed at when you carry it into the welding equipment repair shop. I have stood there at the welding supply and watched them tell a guy that he would have to send his China made welder back to the distributor as they had no sources for parts to repair them.
My Lincoln came used off Craigslist and when my son looked at it he thought it was new. The guy I bought it from took exceptional care of everything he had and the welder showed it.
If you have a good connection with someone at the welding supply you go to stick a bug in their ear that you are looking for a mig and what general size of mig you are looking for. Sometimes guys do like the guy I got mine from and upgrade because they feel they need a bigger machine and are ready to sell a good one that they have for an honest price or the shop gets one back from a short term lease.

 

First off, get to Wray's place asap and he can answer all these questions for you. I can't wait to go play in his new shop. I've taken his class twice in his home shop years back. You will not be disappointed.

I have a Miller 210 and a Miller 180 Syncrowave. Both are about 25 years old and I've never had a minute's trouble with either of them, other than a couple new liners on the mig. I have been doing sheet metal repair for the past several years as a semi retirement thing after the last big downer in the oil patch.

The thing you want in a mig for sheet metal work is for the exact same thing to happen every time you pull the trigger. I can fill in a cavern with my mig if the case arises. I have done a bunch of work in other people's shops and tried using several brands. I have struggled through a big job one corner of the car at a time cause a buddy has a pos welder that he can't use. He makes one hell of a mess, then calls me. I cut out the whole shebang and make a new panel and go home. His welder is from over there and when you pull the trigger, sometimes you get a spark and some times its delayed by enough to really piss off a drag racer. Never the same. I suspect after much thought now that his problem may have been small diameter wire inside a liner made for .045 or something. Possibly the wire is binding up inside a too large liner then releases its energy like a spring? I'm only guessing cause when you pulled the trigger you had to react in a split second to whatever that piece of shit would decide to do. He finally retired that one and has a much better machine for the last repair I did.

I could bore you with at least two more stories just like this. Same problem. Pull the trigger and response is different every time. My Miller 210 is the same every bloody time I pull the trigger. For the past 25 years. Its the last model they made before going digital.

 

The blue welders at school have outlast every other color welder there.

 

Check your local market listings, let's us know what you find.

 

I have that one too! I used it today. I heart my 210!

Same results every time I pulled the trigger today, as the first time that I pulled it.

 

Carl, I'm a Miller guy too. I've had a 210 MIG for ~25 years with zero issues. I have the spool gun and dual tank set-up for aluminum. Although MIG is not ideal for aluminum, it is nice to be able to stick stuff together. We used a Syncrowave 380 at one of the shops I worked at. Old as hell, never needed any work. If I had more disposable income, I would have a Syncrowave 210 in my shop. I want more, but the Syncrowave 210 is probably at the high end of what I can dream about. The 212 MIG replaced the 210 MIG. The same basic package with all sorts of new features. They are nice. It can do more for you. The circuit boards in the new equipment do bother me. You can't get around it though. You can only hope they have hardened all of the new fangled stuff to hold up. I bought a ultrasonic cleaner recently. I opted for one with analog controls. When it does take a poop, I can probably jump something to make it work. But, I think if I pull the trigger on a TIG, I'll go current technology. The bells and whistles probably help a bunch at getting started. Good hunting, Mike

 

Go big or go home. So go Miller.

 

I was in your situation a while back. The local welding supply company let us borrow an inverter machine for a few weeks for a test drive. Once we tried it, we had to have one. Get a Dynasty Inverter machine and you will never look back.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...50-working-out-well-333812/?highlight=Dynasty

 

I learned to wire weld on a MM35 in the mid 80’s. Burned lotsa rolls through it. In the mid 90’s I had a need for “more power” and AirGas was having a sale and demo day on Miller. They tried to get me into a “modern” welder, a Millermatic 210? Or something like that. Immediately I noticed a much “harder” arc than my MM35 had. I didn’t like it at all on sheet metal.
After talking with the rep and telling him I liked my late ‘70’s MM35 better, he said “I know what you need”.
They rolled out a Miller Vintage for me to try. Welded like my MM35. He told me it was like an upgrade on the older model Miller 200?, if I recall.

I guess I’m saying look for options you know what you are used to.

Oh, both of those welders are still in service, I now only keep small wire in the MM35 and only use it for sheet metal. The Vintage is used for just about everything else.
Kinda like having several grinders with different stones and pads on them. I just want to turn it on and get to work