so... a little precursor. i have a 61 two door falcon wagon. i've been working on this thing for 7 years or something. made the mistake of working on other projects in between and the falcon got put on hold alot. i haven't even really driven the car. just around town a little testing stuff. and the brakes have been a big pain in the ass. put a set of big disk brakes in the front. and they were sticking, so i got a new master cylinder, thought that was the problem. made things alot better, but still questionable. so i run the thing over to the tire/alignment shop, because i can't really drive it with the alignment so bad. i got the falcon back from the tire shop a few days ago, and i'm thinking ok, today would be a good day to putt it around town and check it out. first of all it's pulling a little to the left. it didn't seem to when i brought it home, but i can feel it a little now. great, maybe another trip to the alignment shop to have him double check it. and the damn tail pipes hit the rear end on big bumps which got worse with lower profile tires. i think the rear springs need to be re-arched. that's going to have to wait though. we'll i pull over a couple miles from home, and the rotors are pretty damn hot to the touch. and i can smell brakes, so the master cylinder wasn't the whole problem. and they're hot on both sides so that's not why it's pulling to one side. they are alot better, the front brakes used to be sticking pretty bad, but i still don't think it's right. so now i'm thinking screw it, i'll pull the factory type proportioning valve out of there and put one of those summit type jobs in there. i make it home, get the garage open and pull in. i try to keep the car over to the side because we live in the warehouse and people need to get by. then, squish! and i see a 10 foot spray of black globy stuff in the air landing on the car and everywhere else. yep, just tapped a plastic jug of old motor oil, it pressed against the foundation footer, shot off the cap and threw oil everywhere. now i got the freaking exxon valdez to clean up. and i've been meaning to take all that stuff to the recycle place but haven't gotten to it yet. two hours later i got all the crap cleaned up, and put back in bottles. what a mess. pretty much depressed on the car deal. my big goal was to get this thing to billet proof this year no matter what. and it's fighting me tooth and nail. at one point i was just like screw it, i'm not going. but i calmed down, ordered a proportioning valve, and i'll try and get that thing in next week and try the whole thing again. if that doesn't fix it i ain't making it to the show and not sure what the hell it is. plus. it's like i just want to drive this thing. i've been nice. i treated her right. although, i think she knows i want to get her road worthy and sale her. i got a 33 ford truck i want to work on, but i don't have room for both. i mean i'd like to cruise her around a little and enjoy driving something. but i've also got the build bug these days. you ever have one of those days where you're just like screw it, someone take this thing. i'm done. i just want to work on my new found love. ----- and my question is, do you think changing out the proportioning valve is heading in the right direction? the car has set for a long time, so maybe the pistons are sticking or something, but i don't think that's it. and there's about a 1/4 inch play in the rod to the mc, so it's not the rod adjustment. and it's plumbed right. the only thing i keep coming up with is the stock proportioning valve that's in there. i've cleaned it out too. gary.
ouch. I assume it has new brake hoses up front? and the mounting hardware is all ok? could maybe be that valve. My day went to shit when it rained like crazy a couple hours after I painted the garage...the sky was looking like it was gonna clear up when i started this morning.
NO! I DO [/quote] Since it's only pulling one way, I'd say that you have a caliper hanging up. Change out that one caliper, and I'm gonna bet that your problem disappears.
hoses are new, hardware is fine. everything was rebuilt when i put it together, but that was some time ago. so maybe i have some corrosion in there. screw it, i'll jack it up and pull the thing apart and look at the cylinders. but why are both sides hot? that's why i think it's the valve. and sorry about the garage squirrel. that ain't cool. gary
UPDATE: ok sitting here in my coveralls. jacked the car up and both wheels will spin freely after you've pumped the brakes a number of times. there is a drag though. i just don't know how much is too much. the wheel will spin almost one time around if i give it a fair push. and now that i'm looking at it, the preasure switch for the brake lights is in the front circuit, they are not staying on either. maybe i'm just being paranoid since the brakes were locking up before i changed the master cylinder. how hot should rotors get with normal driving? am i just being crazy? a buddie is coming over and were going to take her out again. i'll feel beter with a little company. thanks gary
does this have falcon have stock brake hoses? are they routed the stock way? I had a very similar problem and it turned out that rerouting the brake hoses fixed the problem.. my hoses were kinked less than some I had seen, but they were kinked more than the hoses on my car would allow for.. sawzall
i'll bet my .02 worth that you have a residual pressure valve in there somewhere that it shouldn't be, probably a disc/drum master cylinder that is hooked up backwards.
Wasn't the 61' Falcon a drum-drum car? When you upgraded did you replace/install a new prop valve? And when you upgraded are they the right bearings, a while back I purchased an upgrade kit for a mustang II front and recieved GM bearings with Ford rotors and seals. Just asking, stranger things have happened.
Make sure that the rod that goes between the brake pedal and master cylinder has enough play in it. The normal heating of the fluid expands the fluid and you need some play to account for this. It could account for the very hot rotors if there is too much pressure in the system due to not enough clearance in the brake pedal rod..
Hang in there guy -- looks like lots of knowledgeable answers are already coming in and that . . . plus more will chime in if they get a break in racing action at drags or a net connection. (Hehe!) Your a few steps ahead of me, I've got some fabrication to deal with on my Ford Granada to a Buick Special brake fiasco . . . details soon.
I/m with Ray on the residual pressure. Drum brakes require residual pressure to keep the wheel cyls. full. Disc's don't. You MUST use a master cyl with NO residual pressure valves. Learned all about this when I did a disk conversion on an FJ-40 Landcruiser. Often you can unscrew the big nut/screww that the brake line attaches to on the master cyl. Behind a drum brake one will be a spring and valve. Just remove those and screw the big nut/screw back on the master cyl. and attach brake lline to it. Check both lines (big screws/nuts/line attachments) to be sure there are no springs and valves. Hope this solves it for you !
Make sure you have a return spring on the brake pedal. Just the weight of the pedal without a spring will apply just enough pressure to cause the symptoms you are having. Good luck !
Here's my outlook on the situation - I have a 63 Falcon Wagon, I put discs on the front, went to dual circuit brakes using a Nissan Master Cylinder (don't laugh it was one i had kicking round the shop and all i had to do was open up the mounting holes to fit) and a remote servo (booster). On the first journey I had the same thing - the fronts were binding bad and the more I used the brakes the worse it got. I just made it home - I only went round the block, after much thinking and discussion with a mate, we realised that the actuating rod for the master cylinder was too long. I'd already shortened it - but not enough. Check to make sure this isn't happening to you - good luck and don't give up hope - they are great cars Cheers Bob
UPDATE II all good info coming thanks a ton! took it out again. same problem. front disks are hot, way too hot. and pulling to the left, which now i'm thinking could be related somewhat. but the right side is way hot too. it is a granada swap. just bought a new disk/drum master cylinder. that helped alot, but not enough. so now i'm going to replace the hoses, thought they were new, but they're not. and also look at the calipers. i figure if i have the flexiable brake lines off, and there's still too much drag. it's the calipers, right? if not, then it's the wrong master cylinder, or prop. valve. i think i got enough play in the rod. but will take that apart and double check. rod moves 1/4 inch before i 'feel' it touch something. the brake pedal return spring is on and working. and it's plumbed big side to front brakes. thought that was right? i'll check the mc for those springs and things too. but first i'm pulling the lines and see if the wheels spin better. thanks for all the help folks. i need it. and it's making me want to make that show damn it. and sqtlethargic look up some union 76 station or something on the internet. lot's of them still fill up propane stuff for RV's. unfortunatley i've got family in town and it's going to be monday before i get to it. sigh. i'll try to add a couple picks then too. thanks again. gary.
did you lube up the caliper to bracket contact points? they should be lubed with some lithium grease to work smoothly. you MAY be able to cheat too and omit the spring clip that goes on the little slide in caliper retainer, it will work either way, but may rattle if left out.
UPDATE III well it's not good news for the car. found out three days ago we might get priced out of our warehouse come january. don't you love the san francisco housing market. so instead of sitting around pulling my hair out, i picked up a construction job for a couple of weeks. my roommate is a architect that design/builds small retail places. this one is going to be a goth shoe store. goth, heh. yeah i said goth. anyway, i'm cutting wood and pounding nails and all that all day, and when i get home there's not much gas left in the tank to wrench on the car. plus i have to start figuring out what the hell we're going to do about living in this fair city. hopefuly we can negotiate some sort of deal where we can stay. so it looks like billet proof is going to be a tall order. in the mornings i'm all fired up and thinking i'll pull the car apart at night, but when i get home i'm pooped out from working and stressed out over the house deal. sigh. you never know though i might pull it off yet. man, the day that turned to crap looks like it might roll into a few months. gary.
My granada swap is coming along too -- I've got residual valves for my front brakes (drum) coming in soon. I discovered the granada is a 7/8 bore and my wheel cylinders are 1 inch . . . so moving my pivot point to get fluid volume up probably wasn't a bad thing. This is so hodge podge, I'm just going to have to experiment to get it right. I might have to go with a proportioning valve, will decide once the residual is in place. Hope your able to get yours rolling -- I sit around at a desk job all day and look forward to the garage stuff at night. I don't know how you west coasters put up with everything you do . . . from pucker factor of quakes to outta site land values . . . .jeez.
There's the problem! get a 67 chevelle drum/drum master. leave the ratio at 6:1 and you'll be a happy camper. Ford parts never work on a general's car
Apologies for the hijaak already in progress here. Looking at napaonline.com -- exits are on wrong site. Bore is right size, but the lines would be coming into the middle of the brace for fender. Doh!
UPDATE IV no worries on any kind of hijack. thought i had to work today, but got it off. so screw it, figured i'd thrash on the falcon. so i took off a brake line on one side, brakes are still sticking pretty bad. took the whold thing apart and this is what i think is the problem. one, the inside brake shoes are pretty tight in there. filed off the paint on the edges and that got things sliding in and out fine. second, the piviot pins or slide pins? didn't have that much grease on them. and they we're smooth but i cleaned them up anyway. put a bunch of greese on them, put the calipers back on, bingo i think that's going to work. there's still drag, but not like it used to be. one of the rubber things that keeps the grease around the pins broke off, and somehow i lost a brake pad retaining clip, so hopefully i can get that stuff at the parts store. then bleed the brakes again, and see if it's fixed. also looks like i warped one rotor a little from the heat, not sure how bad that is until i drive it again. freaking progress for once. hopefully. heh. billit proof might happen afterall. gary.
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