Hot Rods Driven GL-4 Gear Oil Ate My Bronze Bushings !!

Thanks, Phil!

 

Thanks all for your insights. I'm pretty sure the problem is with the shifter. I'm going to drain trans and flush it out with diesel then disconnect shifter arms and manually move it through the gears and see que pasa. The problem as I see it happens when I try to engage reverse first and third which necessitates moving the shifter forward. towards the dash when sitting in the cab. But the shifter won't go there. It's like the shifter hits something hard or something solid that prevents forward movement. I can engage second and fourth though when I move the shifter backwards or in the opposite direction. All ideas will be appreciated (well most ideas anyway) and Good luck Ray !

 

get the truck up on stands, and take a good look. Might be a loose mount, loose floorboard, or something simple like that.

I would not put diesel in the transmission. Just drain it, and fill with GL4 when you find some. GL5 isn't going to make the transmission explode!

 

Agreed, the amount of GL-5 left after draining it won't be enough to have any affect. If you want to be really picky about it run it a while then change it again.

 

From what I have read, GL5 is E P , "extreme pressure" . The extreme pressure is an additive thats made to stick on the face of the gear under extreme pressure such as a ring and pinion in a differential, to provide a protective wear surface on the gears. Sulfur is the ingredient that makes it stick to the surface, and sulfur is also what is bad for yellow metals. Thats the easy part, now it gets confusing. Some GL4 lube is just that, and if you read the labels some say GL4 EP, which they claim is a low enough sulfur content to be usable in a synchronized transmission or a differential, and some brands of GL4 say right on the label " not for use in a synchronized manual transmission" So, are the manufacturers telling the truth. or trying to trick us? LOL ! Its very hard to find any GL4 in the stores around me, and the store people will all look funny at you when you try and explain this, and try to sell you GL5. Also, 85 90 is what I wanted, and most only carry 140 wt. I recently rebuilt the trans and transfer in my old willys jeep and had to order a gallon thru my napa store. I see that Summit sells quarts of manual trans lube specifically made for older synchronized ******s, might be a good thing to reach the free shipping mark. Now, after that rant, I certainly have to agree with the others, you could not have hurt anything in such a short period, there must be another problem

 

You've got it mostly correct, the EP additives are compounds formulated with sulfur and phosphorous. The EP compounds adsorb to the surfaces of the gears to provide a self sacrificing layer between the gears; so that instead of metal to metal contact between the gears under certain conditions you have EP additives against EP additives. The compounds are heat reactive, i.e. it takes a certain amount of heat to activate them and cause the adsorption. It is a chemical bond between the additives and the metal. This bonding can be aggressive with yellow metals and cause corrosion. Note that most of the protection for the gears comes from the oil itself, the viscosity of the oil provides a film that keeps the gears separated and prevent wear. But under certain conditions (technically called "Boundary" conditions) the oil film is not developed to the point sufficient to keep the parts separated. This is when the EP additives are needed. Both GL-4 and GL-5 contain EP additives, with GL-5 being much more heavily loaded, so GL-5 can be more aggressive. Earlier gear oils, like GL-1 straight grade SAE 80 or 90, don't contain EP additives.

Note, since the adsorption of the additives is a chemical bonding, the rate of this bonding, like all chemical reactions, is accelerated by heat. The higher the operating temp, the more reaction of these compounds. If you're not seeing any corrosive wear of yellow metals with GL-5 it could be the trans is not developing sufficient heat to activate the compounds. There are also different chemistries, different additives, they all aren't the same, all GL-5 gear oils aren't the same, some are more reactive than others. So the brand you're using may or may not be aggressive against yellow metals.

Here's an article that describes this in more detail: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28958/ep-additives-effects

 

Ask and ye shall receive:


EP additives can cause damage to a
worm wheel, which is usually bronze.

The picture is from the article linked to in the above post. It's not from a car transmission, but is claimed to be the result of EP additives.

 

So...no evidence still that GL5 will cause any problems in automotive transmissions or rear ends.

 

I’d find the dude who gave that information and pay him a visit, he or they owe you!!!

 

It sounds a little like one of those internet tales, told and retold over and over with a little exaggeration thrown in each time.

Throw it in the pile - drum brakes, points ignition, generators, etc. It’s a wonder anybody even made it across town without breaking down back in the day.

 

I have a fresh Muncie M-20 and 4 qts of GL-4.......guess what I'm going to use.

 

ATF?

 

I got nuthin... But I don't work with p***enger cars, my customer's vehicles are heavy trucks or off road earth moving equipment; totally different applications. Truck manual shift transmissions moved to SAE 50 grade engine oil about 40 years ago, nobody has used EP gear oils in truck transmissions for a long time. Modern manual shift truck transmissions have specialized synthetic oils. And most earth moving equipment uses automatic power shift transmissions which use a completely different transmission oil, either a universal tractor/hydraulic type fluid like a John Deer J20C/Cat TO2 type fluid; or a Cat TO4 type fluid; or ATF. So I've not run across this problem in >20 years in the lubes business, or 15 years in the equipment repair biz prior to that.

Searching the net brought up nothing. You can find the same warnings about not using GL-5, but no photos or examples of failures caused by it. If you can you've got better search engine than me.

 

I'll put it in the "urban legend" file....

 

I agree with everyone that the oil change couldn't have screwed stuff up that fast but regarding another point you made. If push came to shove and you had to pull the transmission wouldn't it be much easier to pull the engine than the body. Now would be a nice time for a Tremec if that were the case. Good luck!

 

Let us know what you find out !

.

 

Urban legend or not there's enough talk about it that I used Sta-Lube GL-4 in my '39 toploader. Better safe than sorry IMHO.
Andy

 

Just throwing it out there, Oreilly's has Gl4 gear lubes. Have not bought any in the last year since the craziness started, but it WAS reasonably priced.

 

I don't see it on their web page. Do you have a link?

 

I can't get link to work, but Googled "gear lube Oreilly's". Up popped a page from local store with all sizes and flavors of Master Pro gear lube.

 

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/...16582/gear-oil---additives-16905/ffff902ceb4e

Ha, now I feel smart.

Just pulled up price, web page shows it is still 19.99 a gallon, what I paid before we figured out foreign oil does not change the climate. Sta lube is as high as $50 a gallon!

 

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...86/automotive-car-2010-chevrolet-malibu?pos=0

Cool...do they have 90 wt?

 

None of those lubes listed are GL-4, they are all GL-5, or no spec is listed at all, other than viscosity grade.

Correction, the SAE 140 grade Squirrel posted is GL-4, if you can use that viscosity grade. That's pretty thick stuff for most p***enger cars.

 

I hadn't paid attention to the other grades. I bought 140 for my old Ford MH and my Farmall A

 

How's this, Squirrel? Sae 90, gl4, and awesome price. Should find that in your neck of the woods.

Link didn't work, but Google carquest sae 90, if you care to. $17-18/gallon.

 

^^^thank you!^^^

 

Sta-Lube at NAPA

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SL_SL24229

 

Found this on Valvoline site http://www.carquestprofessionals.co...nsmission Fluid Application Guide 6.6.13.pdf

 

The two local "real" parts stores are PartsPlus, not CarQuest. They didn't have any in stock when I've checked.