Technical Replacing the flat 6 in my 1951 Ford Tudor Deluxe

Hello folks,

I've read through many postings here, but couldn't find answers I'm looking for, so hopefully someone here can help out.

I live in an area where posted interstate speed limits are 80 mph and traffic moves at 85+. Even though the flat 6 is running as it should, the best I can get out of it is about 70-72 indicated, and that's full out. I live at an elevation of 4500 ft, and to go in any direction from home I have to climb to 6000-7000 ft. All these factors combined rob a motor of power. I would like to drive my car more than just to the local burger joint every third Thursday of the month in summertime to show it. I'm not looking for wheel-smoking power, I just don't want to hold up traffic on the interstate while over heating.

I have long term plans to restore it as close to showroom condition as possible, with some upgrades to power, brakes, suspension, and other safety related items. It will be repainted either black or dark cherry red, either color with several coats of clear. I'd like the replacement motor to be an overhead straight 6, but something from the 1950s to keep it as close to original as possible. Unless someone can make a good case for talking me out of it, I'm thinking maybe a Ford straight six from 1958 or 1958.. It would have the bit of extra power I want. I'd like input on the viability of the swap.

Thanks.

 

Several I6 Ford guys here on the board. Many switch to the later 300. Here are some details of the 223

Ford 223 Inline 6 Cylinder Engine Specs, Firing Order and Information : Engine Facts.com

223 Ford - Good Motor or Good Boat Anchor? | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

Technical - Ford 223 six tuning advise | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

Ford 223 Turbocharger set ups??? | The H.A.M.B. (jalopyjournal.com)

 

Others will come along and let you know about what is an easy fit in your car, but where are you located that has 80mph posted speed limits? I’ve seen 70 in some places, mostly 65. Just has me curious is all

 

South Dakota and others have been 80 for quite a while.

 

^^^^ I’ll be darned

 

I’ve travelled extensively through areas with high speed limits, with a Transit cl*** B motorhome.

I just don’t see a problem driving at 65-70. That’s what the majority of the traffic travels at, although you don’t realize it when driving at 80. It came as a surprise to me, but that’s my observation after traveling between Michigan, TexS, Virginia, and Arizona about fifteen times in the past three years. Yes, cells of faster traffic is out there, but there are more trucks, campers, and senior citizens than Mario Andrettis.

Most fleet 18 wheelers are governed at 62-67 mph, depending on the fleet.

I like to drive fast too, and have the highway patrol paperwork to prove it, but these old death traps with no crumple zones, primitive brakes, and door latches that pop open in a second don’t have to “keep up” with modern traffic. Enjoy them for what they are.

I suppose I sound like a cranky old fogey, but it sounds like the op is looking for advice on how to turn his old shoebox into a dreaded street rod.

 

That old 6 should be capable of 90 MPH. I've done that but not in the kind of traffic we have nowadays. It has more HP than the 8BA that came in the shoe box. I would suggest that maybe your engine is due for an overhaul. The flat 6 is one tough little engine.

 

You just need a super charger for your i6, then it will handle the elevation and the hills.
I’m sure with a little attention to detail you can make it look period correct or even even stock…

 

You won't gain anything swapping a 223 OHV for the 226 flat six, unless you throw a bunch of money at it. Even then.....

 

Rear end gears?
Overdrive?

 

Or maybe, just slow down a little.

 

I like your '51 but, do you really want to drive 80 mph (sustained) in a 71 year old car? I would be nervous with that suspension, roll center, and overall handling, let alone the effects of wind on that brick!
What is your current differential ratio? A change to a higher ratio might get you the speed you want, but won't do anything for you in terms of hill climbing ability.
Take a look at the various Ford 4 and 5 speeds (with overdrive) along with different rear end ratios.
The 6 you have is a good engine, and as stated above, has more hp, and probably more torque than a flathead V8 (Ford intentionally down-rated the 6's to make the V8's look better) . If your engine is in good shape and you don't mind shifting, I think the proper match-up of gear ratios through the drive train would be the way to go, economically, drivability, and conversion labor wise. Factor in conversion components (motor mounts, exhaust system, possibly a cooling system upgrade, etc.) and the cost of an engine swap goes up.
Also, I usually drive in the 'slow' lane, at truck speeds, to enjoy the drive and not have to white-knuckle it. The difference between 65 and 80 seems like a lot, but unless you're travelling cross country, it doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference in overall travel time.
Good luck!

 

I had a flathead 6 in my 49 coupe before I put a nailhead in it. The motor has plenty of torque. I would change the rear end to an 8' with 3.20 or even 3.00 gears and put in 4 or 5 spd transmission. Not only are full synchros nice in the city, it will give you better performance off the light with the taller gears. A driveline swap is a lot more work. My 0.02.

 

The 223 would not gain you anything to achieve the goals you are after, they were also used in Ford Tractors. The later 250 Sixes would be a better option ,you can find out a lot of info on the early and late Ford Sixes here: fordsix.com

 

In this part of the world, 62-67 mph semis would be a nice change. As it is, they're moving at 80-. I occasionally have them swing out and p*** me when I'm doing 80-85. California has a law, that any vehicle towing any trailer is limited to 55 mph. I don't think that law has ever been enforced.

I'm planning on a lot of safety upgrades, brakes, suspension, steering, etc and have no qualms about long distances at high speeds. For the last 40 years or so, I've been making several trips a year between northern Utah and SoCal, about 700 miles one way. I have a couple of other oldies I drive long distances at high speeds, but they're outside of age group to be discussed here.

 

Apologies for the repeated quotes, I need to go back and relearn posting.

 

I have no experience with the 223 OHV, just going by factory numbers, that's why I 'm looking for input. I live at 4500 ft elevation, so motors put out about 14% less power here than at sea level or close to it, where I believe factory numbers are established.

1951 226 Flat 6 95 hp 185 tq top speed 80 mph
1958 223 OHV 145 hp 212 tq top speed 95 mph

On a rebuild, I could probably squeeze out an additional 15 hp from the 223 by bumping compression a bit, using a cam with a better grind to enhance burn and scavenging, and maybe do some port matching.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

You can probably get more power out of your current engine with some minor upgrades and freshening the engine. Upgrades like a little bigger carb, better flowing exhaust, maybe shave the head for bit more compression, do some minor port work. But in the end it still is limited in rpm and gearing.

I agree a modern OD trans and/or a taller rearend gear will help out.

If you really want to swap the engine, go for a later model six like the 240/300 or the 200/250. The 250 may be a better swap as I think it is little smaller than the 240/300 series. You will still need a new trans with the newer engine.

 

3.73 and yes on overdrive.

 

Thanks. I'ts not so much that I feel a need to travel fast, even though driving at the slower speed would make my regular home to socal trip about 2 1/4 hours longer, it's that I don't want to be the 65 mph car slowing traffic in a world of 85 mph cars. Going slower than traffic flow can be just as bad as gong faster than traffic flow. Local news had a segment last week with Highway Patrol officials questioning why so many more citations have been issued so far this year for drivers traveling at over 100 mph.

 

If you want to see what can be done with the OHV early 6 look at what John Mullin is doing with the Bonneville Pickup here on the HAMB he has built. XO/PP Bonneville Project. I believe it started from a 262 ci early style truck 6 which is the same family of engines.

I know it’s over the top but ANY engine can benefit from higher compression, for you about 9-1, a RV style cam advanced about 6 degrees, headers, and a carburetor swap. I believe Clifford Research still does make speed parts for the 223-262 sixes. You don’t need to spend a truck load of money but a 52-up OHV can really be fun and run 75 at 3000 rpm. Custom pistons will be a big part of the equation and Ross Specializes in this kind of stuff.
Remember a 3-OD is a 6 speed driven correctly………good luck…

 

Thanks for the links, great reading. Ah yes, South Dakota. In my (misguided) youth, I was ticketed for 121 mph on the road between Agar and Oneida. Tube tires which were recaps, non-power steering, non-power brakes, no seat belts, drum brakes on all four corners. My defense of "I'm not from here, I thought SD has no speed limits" only served to really infuriate the JP.

 

Sorry, I'm sometimes not the sharest tack in the box, BUT, you said you want to restore your car to as close to showroom as possible but are going to upgrade supension ,brakes and such so why not swap a V8 and OD trans in also. Problem solved. Originally restored cars are usually dull and boring furniture in my book. HotRods are more fun to drive, just sayin. Mitch

 

OK should be dark green also. Some of our turnpikes are 80.

 

I typed that in a hurry without fully explaining. I meant I want it as close as possible to showroom condition visually, but with added safety features. Most people when they look at a car in p***ing will notice condition of body, paint, brightwork, and also if they look at the interior. Unless a real car enthusiast, they won't notice upgrade to disc brakes, dual master cylinder, better suspension components, upgraded radiator, addition of A/C, etc. I guess they wouldn't notice a newer V8 either, unless the hood was up. For me, the danger of V8 thinking would be the beginning of a real slippery slope going many directions, which I want to avoid. I'll take suggestions into consideration and think about it a while.

 

I might ruffle feathers with some here but a small block Chevy would fit in that engine compartment like it beloned there. They run hard, they run cool and parts are available at any parts place. Couple it with a OD trans and an good geared rear end and you'll be able to drive that shoebox anywhere. Just dont open the hood when you park it and you'll be good. Mitch

 

Well, I think driving habits are different for many. I’ve no issue in my 5k DD pu doing the speed limit and letting all go around me, some with fingers in the air.
Thing is, if you get that car to run (in your mind) safely at 80+ with traffic, you still can’t out maneuver the WRX, etc. in a panic situation.
You mentioned an 800? Mike drive and speed limit v what you want to drive. 2.5 hours saved? Is it worth it, or maybe better to chill in the right and let them go by

Good luck, be safe!

 

Id put an overhead valve engine in there. An olds or caddy will look killer in there, sound awesome, have plenty of hp. I love, drive and own flatheads but in a full size car they dont cut it for me.

Or a Chevy W motor. Imagine that thing with a 409? Sick bro

 

The last 40 years or so, I've been a purist about matching motors to cars, never crossing over. Before that time, I was putting Buick, Caddy, old Hemi motors in everything, and had a great time doing it. Mostly back in the days when Buick, Olds, Chev and Caddy had different motors. Might be time to re-think some of that.

The John Mullen approach, very interesting and pretty much what I was originally thinking with the OHV straight 6. Think I'll follow up on that. Thanks for the pointer.