How about a quick schooling on old Hemis. Which ones are parts available, which parts interchange, which one is most cost effective etc? Thanks
Hemi 101; call Hot Heads. They make it as easy as building a belly button motor...more expensive mind you but easy..er.
Look up Kanter Auto Parts as well . Complete engine kits with online and paper catalogs. Give you an idea on costs.
Chryslers are the easiest to get parts for, then Dodge and Desoto would place a 3rd. ALL are great power plants
One thing you should check. I built a 331 for my dirt modified (avatar) about 25 years ago because I thought it would be cheaper than a 392. When I finally got around to doing it, I found the pistons for the 331 were much more expensive than those for a 392. I actually could have spent $1000 more for a 392 core and come out ahead. (The 12.5 cr JE pistons for that engine cost more than the complete build of a 350 SBC for my boat that I did about the same time.) Hopefully, it's not that way any more, but I would check. It cost me over $6000 to build that 331 in the mid-90's; I have no idea what it would be now (I shudder to think). It was a "top-end" build with an Engle roller tappet cam, ported heads, Donovan exhaust rockers, Cirello magneto, etc.
Agreed with @tubman My 392 in 2000 was 14K Double that today....... Now saying that..I went temporarily insane building it. .. and divorced.
A word of advice too, Hot Heads has a parts ID Link: https://hothemiheads.com/hemi_info/index.html Make sure you know what it is you're looking at when you're buying it. Every early hemi is a "Chrysler 392" to people that don't know, even if it's really a 276 Desoto.
One good thing about early Hemis is ,they are usually pretty easy to I.d. What brand they are . On the front of the block ,,at the tappet chamber cover,,,,,,there will be I.d. # s,,and serial #s,,,,stamped into the block . Here is an example of such numbers,,,,,these are for a Desoto . Tommy
Not much interchangeability between the 3 family’s… maybe the timing chain cover… but that can be iffy. And then there is the long bell Chrysler from 51-53( some 54’s)… then 54- 58 no cast bell blocks… the preferred one. Nothing wrong with extended bells…. Dodge and Desoto never had extended bell housings
To expand on Tommy's (Desoto291 Hemi) post, here are the car engine ID's : DESOTO: S17 - 1001 1952 Firedome 276 2 160 S16 - 1001 1953 Firedome 276 2 160 S19 - 1001 1954 Firedome 276 2 170 S21 - 1001 1955 Fireflite 291 4 200 S22 - 1001 1955 Firedome 291 2 185 S23 - 1001 1956 Firedome 330 2 230 S24 - 1001 1956 Fireflite 330 4 255 S24A - 1001 1956 Adventurer 341 2-4 320* S25 - 1001 1957 Firedome 341 2 270 S26 - 1001 1957 Fireflite 341 4 295 S26A - 1001 1957 Adventurer 345 2-4 345* DODGE: D44 - 1001 1953 Red Ram 241 2 140 D50A - 1001 1954 Red Ram 241 2 140 D50 (1, 2, 3) 1954 Red Ram 241 2 150 D553 - 1001 1955 Super Red Ram 270 2 or 4 183 or 193 D500 - 1001 1956 D500 315 4 260 KD500 - 1001 1957 D500 325 4 or 2-4 285 or 310 CHRYSLER: C51 - 8 - 1001 1951 Chrysler 331 2 180** C52 - 8 - 1001 1952 Chrysler 331 2 180** C53 - 8 - 1001 1953 Chrysler 331 2 180** C541 - 8 - 1001 1954 New Yorker 331 2 195** C542 - 8 - 1001 1954 New Yorker 331 4 235** WE55 - 1001 1955 New Yorker 331 2 250 NE55 - 1001 1955 New Yorker 331 4 250 CE55 - 1001 1955 Imperial 331 4 250 3NE55 - 1001 1955 C300 331 2-4 300*** NE56 - 1001 1956 New Yorker 354 4 280 CE56 - 1001 1956 Imperial 354 4 280 3NE56 - 1001 1956 300B 354 2-4 340*** NE57 - 1001 1957 New Yorker 392 4 325 NE57 - 1001 1957 New Yorker 392 2-4 375*** CE57 - 1001 1957 Imperial 392 4 325 58N - 1001 1958 New Yorker 392 4 345 58C - 1001 1958 Imperial 392 4 345 58N3 - 1001 1958 300D 392 2-4 380 If your number is not on the list, it's probably a truck, industrial, or even marine engine. Those numbers are on the internet someplace, but I' too lazy to go out and find them.
There are a bunch of hemi’s out here . When I had my 1940 Plymouth Business coupe , it had a 1955 DeSoto 291 hemi and I got what I needed from both Hotheads and Kanter .
A 392 will set you back a bit more than a 354 or a 331. Those two don't have the cache that the 392 does. No matter, though, as the smaller ones look mostly the same, and still make good power. I have two 354's. One blown, on not. I have about $20k in the blown one. I don't recommend this unless you have an understanding spouse.
I have built LOTS of motors over the years, but never a hemi. With that said, when I began collecting parts for my avatar deuce roadster, I decided that I wanted a 291 Desoto because I was always in love with Gene Adams Desoto powered junior fueler. I ate women and children for lunch and took no prisoners! I also wanted something different than a cookie cutter 350/350 combo that are so popular in general. I have a friend/neighbor/ fellow hot rodder/ and also an employee at the same place I worked, ask me how my hemi search was going after a year. I said I had no luck. He then said that he had a hemi in his back yard that he knew nothing about and since it was given to him, he would give it to me! I snapped it up faster than a hungry frog sitting on a lily pad suckling up bugs! I ran the numbers on it and found out it has come out of a 58 Dodge 2 1/2 ton truck. It was a 354, complete except for intake, valve covers, rocker arm assemblies and valve covers. Apparently it had been hit from the side and that's how one head got busted. I hauled my treasure home and disassembled it. Then began a very interesting education on my part. I rapidly found out that hemi parts are made of an extremely rare alloy called "unobtainium" and when searching for parts on the phone, no matter who I spoke to, you could hear the faint sound of a cash register clanging in the background! One of the biggest quests I had was finding 354 passenger car heads. Everybody that owned a set wanted an arm and a leg PLUS my first born for a pair of bare heads! The 55 triple nickel heads were just as bad. All of them said that the 56 heads were the besT and ALL the drag racers used them on 392's. If it was the 55 heads, THEY were the best for drag racers. Completely confused, I remembered Joe Reath. I had worked for Douglas aircraft in Long Beach and Joe's shop was just across the street on Cherry. So I called Joe and explained my dilemma and how everyone wanted $$$$$$$$$$ for tithe the 56 354 heads or the 55 triple nickel heads because ALL the drag racers used them. Joe put that myth to bed real easy. He said, have you ever heard of a guy named Don Garlits? Well, he used 392 head on 392s and beat everybody!". Joe had a set untouched and complete for $600 and I told him to put my name on them and I would be down Saturday to get them. When I got there, Joe said he had bad news and good news. The bad news was the the original heads were cracked and not usable, the good news was that he found a ready to bolt on set for $900. Then I found out that these 56 heads were ported, converted to 426 valves, trick valentine seat job, Glyptol painted on the inside with all new springs and retainers. All for $900 out the door! I was amazed to see the quality of castings, forgings, and machine work these engines have, especially since they weren't built for racing. I have worked on exotic race bred engines that looked that good, but never on run of the mill Detroit iron before. To make a long story even longer, I did all of the assembly and only farmed out the necessary machine work. Bought all the parts as cheaply as possible (ha ha ha, on that one), and I still spent close to 8 grand from pan to air cleaner ! That was finished in 2008 and my wallet eventually healed. I have over 40k miles on it and what a sweet motor it is! Yes, I could have built a couple of Chevy engines AND transmissions for that and had change left over. However, all that would NEVER match the visuals or the incredibly wonderful sound coming out of the exhaust when I nail it. It runs 180° and 72 lbs of oil pressure all day long and at any speed. I have an overdrive trans and it gets superb mileage in O/D. It went on the road in 2009 and is driven every chance I get. Tomorrow night it's heading to a local cruise in and with summer just around the corner, it won't collect much dust sitting in the garage. The question is, would I do it all over again and spend the money, and the answer is ABSOLUTELY!!!
I know most Hamber's are all about the Early Chryslers, but if a guy is looking at spending $25,000+ on an engine, for a bit more, you can build a 426. It's kind of a different era, but the 426 is superior in almost every way. Nothing wrong with a good Whale, it's just that to me, a kid of the 70's, the 426 is just so special. Garlits, Prudhomme, Lahaie, Coil, they all graduated into it, because it was a better race engine. Just more rugged. Finding someone who knows the engine (machinist) can be tough, and they do have their quirks, but the things make so much power, so effortlessly. It's one unusual situation where you can remove a blah engine, install another (426), and transform a ride in coolness, power and dare I say it, resale value. I always wanted one, and in hindsight I got way over my head cost and knowledge-wise, but the thing is just Top Fuel bad-ass.
What's a good Hemi to use? The one under your bench pulled from he last project that nobody would buy to help fund it. In this case a 276 DeSoto. Hot Heads has (almost) everything you could need for all of them, but the DeSoto version is probably the most challenging. I left it bone stock, it had been rebuilt by the PO and never run.
I have 2. A 1954 Chrysler 331 Hemi in my merc and a 1955 331 Hemi out of a Chrysler 300. Get The Complete Hemi book by Ron Ceridono.
Got to Hotheads website they have parts for hemi and also swap meet area to see engines for sale to give you an ideal what's out there. I bought most of my parts from them for my 392.
the hot tip back in the day and it still applies today is to get a 354 Chrysler block. get a 392 crank to put in it. the cranks thrust needs to be modified by adding .050 to it. the mains need to be cut to 354 specs. the rod journals can be cut to 354 specs. if you do that get hot heads rods that move the bearing tang to the other side so you can use the much cheaper and more readily available big block Pontiac bearings. or it can be cut to the larger of the two bbc sizes. if you hurt a journal the crank can be cut again to the smaller bbc size. this is all very well worth it. the engine will be lighter by 35 lbs. it will be smaller physically. the port angles will be better for more power. and the cubic inches will be 392. plus you can find the 354 cheaper because few know about these modifications. my thread rebuilding after the crash covers all of this in detail and picks. scroll through the entire thread as there is a lot of info there.
If you happen to find an industrial Hemi, this pad may not be stamped at all. The info for these engines can be found stamped on a tag riveted to the block just ahead of the bell housing on the driver side.
I became a Chrysler guy because of the Hemi....The top fuel racers for the most part used Chrysler Hemis.....As I started building motors it seemed that Mopar bottom ends were always better due to all motors before 72 having forged crankshafts....Even six cylinders...When you can look in the intake and see the exhaust that seemed to me be the best flow pattern....I will always be fascinated by this motor and the companies decision way back then to market it....No replacement for displacement...
I have had my long-bell 331 my whole rodding career. Have been upgrading it gradually the whole time. First thing I did was rebuild it with a 354 style cam. The early 331 cam has a weird snout, it is easy to adapt the later cam into it. Then I got an aluminum adaptor and flywheel to mount my GM Hydro. Had rto move the starter to the passenger side by welding a boss onto the lower flywheel cover. Next was adapt an A-LA distributor/electronic ignition. I had a scratched cylinder so having hemi legend Ernie Hashim available in my home town, I had him find me a set of used 354 pistons and bore it 1/8" over and balance it to a 354. Then I adapted a 354 intake manifold to run a Holley 3bbl carb. Had to make provisions for a thermostat housing since the 331 doesn't use the 392 type crossover manifold. The most recent modification is installing truck heads in place of the tiny port 331s. The truck heads are great for this since they are big valve, big port heads for power. The drawback is they use water to heat the intake instead of exhaust and the ports in the heads are bigger than the manifold exposing them to big leaking. That is fixed by welding in blocking plates. They also have sodium filled exhaust valves with big stems. It's a good idea to replace guides anyway so no big deal. Vanity mod is adding Marine valve covers for the adjustable rocker bumps! Point is these are great engines and really fun to work on.
Another "Hernando" 330 in my 41 pickup project. Fresh rebuild that I bought for a lot less than doing a core motor I had.
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