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Hot Rods Alternate To Ford 9" Rear End..Will A Ford Falcon From a V-8 Work

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Carl Hungness, Jun 4, 2022.

  1. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 10,919

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska

    Don't count out a company such a John's Industries for a new 9 inch custom made for your application. It's a little more money but is new and able to withstand the power of your Cad.
     
  2. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,398

    sunbeam
    Member

    If you can find a 1970 1/2 429 Cobra jet falcon the rear end should hold up.
     
    indyjps and Carl Hungness like this.
  3. This (WMS) is the Flange-Flange measurement?

    What are these sold as here in Australia?
     
  4. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,378

    Budget36
    Member

    WMS is Wheel Mounting Surface.
     
  5. twenty8
    Joined: Apr 8, 2021
    Posts: 3,751

    twenty8
    Member

    Hilux. PM me if you want more info.

    And yes, WMS to WMS is wheel mount surface to wheel mount surface.
     
  6. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,045

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

    it is amazing all the incorrect info out there! i am doing something like this right now. i am taking the 8 3/4 out of my '63 belvedere and putting in a 9". i have several of them both. the 9" has the ratio i want. now, i can narrow the housings and will just re-spline the axles. all my 9" came from trucks and vans. my 8 3/4 is 59.250 and the 9" is 65.500 wide. i made a couple of flat bars 2" wide and .250 thick,long enough to get past the third member,drilled a couple holes to match the studs and bolted them on. measure between them and bobs your uncle! i don't know how these charts measure them but my way works. that is ***uming you have the original rear to measure too. if you need wider tires just subtract them from this measurement. also, i don't think you need new axles either. for a normal street driving car, if you can physically do it, just re-spline them.
     
    Carl Hungness likes this.
  7. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,348

    loudbang
    Member

    Harder to find that a needle in a hayFARM. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
    irishsteve likes this.
  8. Ah yes.. the ever popular and indestructible HiLux. I have already measured one up, & got this on my list.
     
  9. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,398

    sunbeam
    Member

    With only 90 produced It was a tongue in cheek thing. Any Fairlane Falcon is hard to find I have looked
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
    loudbang likes this.
  10. [QUOTE="flatheadgary, i made a couple of flat bars 2" wide and .250 thick,long enough to get past the third member,drilled a couple holes to match the studs and bolted them on. measure between them and bobs your uncle! i don't know how these charts measure them but my way works. that is ***uming you have the original rear to measure too. if you need wider tires just subtract them from this measurement. also, i don't think you need new axles either. for a normal street driving car, if you can physically do it, just re-spline them.[/QUOTE]

    Another way is to straight edge or plumb bob the WMS to the floor on each side and chalk mark it. Measure the distance between the marks. And yes, I do have an uncle Bob.
    Carl,
    There is no standard width of the 9". It was totally dependent of the vehicle it was designed for. I have seen 2 different widths on the same vehicle because 1 had heavy duty brakes with wider drums. If you have decided on a 9 with drum brakes, the factors to be decided are width, lug bolt pattern to match the front, pinion angle and offset, and ratio. Seek help from others if needed. Finding a used rear to meet all of your parameters may cost more than having one built.
     
  11. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 5,433

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    You will find a variety of "opinions" here and different opinions are not always wrong. Things do work OK sometimes and other times they can lead to problems. Let me say from the start that having your wheels fit correctly in the wheel wells is goal number one. Thats why I recommend getting the tires and wheels as your starting point. Different offsets/backspacing. Different tire shapes. The thing to realize is that most custom wheels and standard wheels are not available in 1/2" variations of offset. So, with two wheels you may end up a full inch wider, if you can even get a wheel that size. They make a tool that can be inserted between a fender and a tire that will roll the bead of the fender a little tighter. Why? Because someones measurement or available wheels are rubbing and they are trying to gain some more clearance. Happens more often than you know. For the guys who are too short on their measurements, many people add spacers behind the wheels. Thats why I recommend starting with the wheel and tire you will use and allowing some room to add a wider tire with more back spacing. That means that the company selling you that wheel has the same wheel available with the same distance from the mounting surface to the outside of the wheel........but the backside of the wheel is wider. Then you always have the option of using a wider wheel/tire combination. Worth checking before buying.

    If you buy a rear end, you want a complete one because one with missing parts usually ends up being more expensive in the long run. You will need to rebuild the brakes no matter what. As far as narrowing goes, I and I'm sure many others on the Hamb will offer ideas on narrowing the housing. You will also have to relocate the spring mounts most likely. You will need to be able to weld/own a welder to do it. When narrowing a rearend, a wider one often is a better starting point. Get the book I told you about and start checking Facebook and Craigslist etc. for a usable rear end. When you have one, I'll try to help you with the narrowing process.:)
     
  12. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 3,332

    sdluck
    Member

    It would help if people would tell us where the are in the world,it would help with info.
     
  13. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,687

    Beanscoot
    Member

    One of the biggest factors in choosing a rear end is appearance, the removable carrier type (Ford 8 and 9 inch, Toyota etc.) have a much different look from the ones with the bolt on rear cover (Ford 8.8 inch etc.).
    This is often very important in a Hot Rod.

    I have an 8" diff behind my 351W, the local differential rebuild shop said the 8" was good for engines up to 400hp, if a guy doesn't try to break it.
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  14. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,255

    Mimilan
    Member

    The only downside is C-clip axles .
    C-Clips were OK for 1+ G cornering loads in a FR500C road racer [ A psychologist can help if this is a worry]

    The same rear-end in the s-197 Mustang is strong enough to get it into the 10's on the quarter.
    And you can swap over disc brake conversions etc .

    Mustangs 8.8 rears had 31 spline axles
    Ranger / Exploder 8.8 rears had 28 spline axles

    0.2" doesn't matter with crown wheel diameter [9" vs 8.8"]
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  15. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,398

    sunbeam
    Member

    Ranger FX4 and 1991- 2001 explores were 31 spline
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,561

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All later Explorer 8.8 rears have built-in axle retainers, that keep the axle in-place if the c-clip system fails.
     
  17. swade41
    Joined: Apr 6, 2004
    Posts: 14,530

    swade41
    Member
    from Buffalo,NY

    The early bronco 9 inch (67-77) is 58 inches wms-wms

    20190406_123452.jpg

    57 chevy truck

    20190407_175100.jpg

    T-bucket

    100_2715.jpg

    Henry J

    20210218_191339.jpg
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  18. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,255

    Mimilan
    Member

    "G" series Toyota Rear End.
    From Cressida's,Crowns , HiLux's and HiAce van's etc.
    They have 28 spline hardened axles .8" Ring &Pinion, 2 or 4 spider and LSD options
    Toyota axles were common to use in NZ to narrow a 9" Ford [until Cheap Cut'n'fit Yukon Axles become available]
    Here is a rear-end ratio chart from the body tag on a Toyota [1989-1993][and diff tags]
    upload_2022-6-7_14-10-4.png

    Too wide for the OP! at 60.5"
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,561

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Single-side narrowing.

    Remove the long shaft, and use two shorts.

    I charge $150 for that, if you bring me all the parts.

    If you're clever, you can swap the shafts at the self-service yard. Nobody will notice.
     
    nosford and swade41 like this.
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,561

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  21. Mimilan
    Joined: Jun 13, 2019
    Posts: 1,255

    Mimilan
    Member

    The OP @Carl Hungness doesn't want to narrow a rear.
    Personally I would run a narrowed 9" housing and a pair of modern "Yukon" cut to length axles.
    These axles have extra long splines on them and can be shortened with a cut-off saw.

    If he doesn't want to pony up the $$$ then an early Ranger 8.8 is a good choice for a narrow rear end.

    @36roadster
    When I was in China , I found a Rear-end that was only 40" flange to flange from one of their stupid little farm trucks. A Toyota "G" series head bolted straight in.
    I was considering this for a HA/GR racer where "Narrowed" rear ends were prohibited. [But Chinese metallurgy was questionable]
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,561

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Taylor-Dunn service carts have the narrowest 9-inch rear. It has a pinion mounted electric drive.

    It is a set of sprockets, and a chain to the motor. Pull the sprocket on the pinion, and the chain housing, and put on a yoke.

    The last one I went through had 31-spline axles, and big bearings.

    I did not measure it, but it was probably 38-40 inches.

    upload_2022-6-6_21-1-18.png
     
    Mimilan likes this.
  23. kabinenroller
    Joined: Jan 26, 2012
    Posts: 1,349

    kabinenroller
    Member

    It was possible that the housing was initially modified by Currie. Before they were famous in the hot rod world for building Ford style rear ends they were a very large supplier of housings for the fork lift/ airport tugg industry. I remember many years ago seeing pictures of their shop property and piles of used Ford rear ends waiting to be modified. Frank Currie was a hot rodder who saw another market for his product and now has new 9” housings available sized to order.
     
    gimpyshotrods and Budget36 like this.
  24. Harv
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,483

    Harv
    Member
    from Sydney

    Hilux, aka Toyota G-series diff. Also came out in HiAces locally, albeit without the 4-pinion, bigger bearing V6 version.

    Cheers,
    Harv
     
  25. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 6,062

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Lot more to it than " up to 400 HP"
     
  26. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 24,344

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    I WAS GONNA SAY THE SAME THING. FORD RANGER REARS ARE GREAT AND MUCH CHEAPER.
     
    gimpyshotrods and oldiron 440 like this.
  27. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 24,344

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    "WONDER IF IT CAN HANDLE THE 500 CADILLAC". REALLY....DO YOU DRIVE LIKE AN IDIOT? IF YOU JUST PLAN ON "DRIVING", IT WILL BE FINE.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  28. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 4,089

    oldiron 440
    Member

    If your looking at the Explorer it has a 31 spine diff and axles you must think a hell of a lot of that Caddy to worry about busting it on the street.
     
  29. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 5,433

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    The 8.8 is a good rear end and they can still be found with usuable posi units if someone takes their time. Most likely they will hold up pretty well and be a less expensive option. The downside is not having a removable carrier, which most people prefer. I think they are worth considering, especially if someone is trying to save money.
    That said, a stock 500 Cadillac is factory rated at a max of 375HP and most of them don't actually make that on a dyno. What they do make is gobs of torque for moving heavy cars, and torque is what breaks things. With some reasonably mild modification, the Cad can easily pick up 100+ HP and the torque increases further. :)
     
  30. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 4,089

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Over the years there have been plenty of fox body vehicles claiming 800 +hp on stock 8.8 axle ***embly’s.
     

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