Art & Inspiration Speaking Up or Minding own Business ?

I dislike the Expert offering his unwanted unsolicited advice on how I should/could have done it, usually a blowhard full of BS type guy. A thread this Am brought back a memory about trans lines and a fellow racers first Hot Rod back around late 90's. I really never tell someone how I think it should be done unless asked or I see something really stupid, then tactfully mention my suggestion/thoughts. This man spent several years building a beautiful 37 Ford coupe, hot SBC, TH 350, 9" Ford rear end. A friend of mine and I stopped at his shop to check it out, he had a garage party to show ch***is off before body put back on, car was built, dis***embled for paint chrome detailing, it was beautiful, chrome, paint, etc, a show stopper deal. In looking, I noticed the rubber trans lines to cooler, and asked what type are these, was told fuel line as that's low pressure to cooler, good enough. Hmmm, I tactfully suggested using a better rubber line, I have used rubber trans lines but they were a higher quality pressure/heat tolerant type and careful to keep away from exhaust pipes, I never had a problem. Being a racer all fuel lines were Aeroquip lines like we ran on our race cars. A year or so later car is done back from upholstery and he shows up at a cruise night, WOW ! car is a Wow car, a show stopper and looking under hood I politely mention the radiator fan clearance looks pretty tight, less than a 1/2" in conversation I mention when everything gets flexing, it's pretty tight IMO, never asked about trans lines and I and everyone gave him props, car was stunning. Next cruise night he tells me I was right fan rubbed radiator so he cut spacer for more clearance, ordered new radiator as it looked bad, did not leak. I didn't see him anywhere and asked after a while what happened to Dave, was told, car caught fire, burned to the ground, total loss, trans lines maybe ? I felt bad for him, years of time/effort spent, a large pile of money, hope it was insured properly as I never saw him again around anywhere, hot rod deal or racing, it was like he disappeared.

 

I feel you did your due diligence with the cooler lines. He admitted to you about being rite about the fan clearance so maybe he took your first constructive criticism on the hose and he had a wiring issue. I generally try to get a feel for the person before I offer unsolicited advice to make sure it is received properly. If its something that’s really unsafe I’d think differently of it though. An I wish you were there to tell me about not using fuel line for ****** cooler hose on my first circle track car. I was in first place with 3or 4 laps to go with a good lead when it failed and pumped ATF on the right front wheel. Talk about a bad push. Well I got black flagged and didn’t finish. They say the best learned lessons cost the most.

 

Years ago as a drag racer, I found that when solicited, my comments were well taken. Trying to help someone who was out in the weeds usually was a a waste of time. I don't think it means that we should stop trying to help people but be prepared for a blast back at you.

 

There are tactful ways of getting a point across, without being offensive..many haven't mastered that skill.
Personally, when someone starts a conversation with "you should have", my defense mechanism is peeked...no good becomes of it.
HotRodders/people are prideful as a rule, and don't take kindly to being told what they should, or shouldn't have done.
Unsolicited advice can be well received if presented respectfully.

 

I usually mind my own business unless someone comes out and ask my opinion about something specific that they did or are in the process of doing. if they come out and asked if they did this job right, then I would respond on how I would have done it.

Now if they are someplace and I see it leaking some type of fluid, I will point it out to them to make sure they are aware of it. but at times they still tend to bite your head off.

 

There are different ways to offer advice.
You can tell someone "that probably won't work well", and on its own that is unlikely to make them believe it.
You can tell them you've done the same, or seen the same thing on your own or a buddys car, and that it failed miserably there. There's not really any advice there or telling them to do things differently, just the information that you have first hand experience with it not working. The ball is in their court, and most sensible people would think it over.

Rhetoric is the art of persuasion, and there are some very clear rules about how you best persuade people. Some are good at it automatically, some learn it in school, and we all see it applied every day - just for example, TV commercials and newspaper adverts are designed to persuade you that whatever they're selling is good, and that you want it.
How you tell people something they need to know has a great impact on how well they'll listen to it.

 

In my years of racing (Thinking Hot Rodding same deal) I noticed the people that offering help was not always the right "Guy" I did receive help/knowledge from a race car builder, successful car owner, Tom Pogo, Outhouse Engineering, I'm a Wisconsin man, Cheesehead, Beer drinking,(not for 38 years now) and a Packer fan. I spent money at Tom's business, we seem to click and I got the "Right" info from his base of knowledge I took that and ran with it and for several years was pretty successful because he shared his knowledge to give me a baseline to build from. I had a few 15 minutes of fame thanks to him pointing me in the right direction. I like the HAMB tech here, rarely offer any advice, many men share their knowledge, most good, occasionally sketchy IMO. Newbies should always research the subject of their questions, easier today than ever. I think the short answer is "Who's Talking"

 

In many situations I am the one that is taking advice. I had to explain to my Dad numerous times, that I listen to his advice and also that of others, and then do what I think is best, not necessarily what he advised. If all the advice falls in line with what you were already thinking, that is re***uring. In today’s world, there is always google, where if you choose your sources judiciously you can get some pretty good information. I save the “I told you so talk” for close friends and family that I know can take it.

 

Oh, I agree, it depends on who is giving the advice. Lot is discussed at the tavern and everyone seems to be an expert on everything there, just add more alcohol and they know everything without even staying at a holiday inn last night.

I would give more credibilty to the mechanic and listen to him about my car versus the carpenter down the road but vice versa if I wanted help about framing my house I would listen to the carpenter instead of the mechanic guy.

even mechanical stuff, you still need to pick the right one. when I need help or advice I usually don't stop by the guy on the main road that has a few younger mechanics running around. They are busy but that isn't the problem. Problem is they have no clue on older carb cars. They grew up on these front wheel drive fuel injected cars. I visit my mechanic buddy on a back street behind these other guys but he grew up working on my type of cars.

all depends on who is giving the advice if I listen or not or consider it.

 

The problem I see is that there is useful information sometimes offered and then there is miss information that is sometimes offered.

Today we have a great deal of miss information or miss leading information being offered in a variety of formats from U-Tube to car forums sites.

Many people offer their years of experience to help someone who they think is about to make a mistake, which is a very kind thing to do.

I learned many years ago, it is not what you think you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you think you know that just is not so.

Another way of putting it is in life, people get the right answer to the wrong questions and then base their opinions on those answers. Learning to ask the right questions is something that takes years to learn.

Just my opinions. Jimbo

 

Oh, I love going to you tube videos and seeing it done. My repair manuals have been gathering dust lately.

 

I only offer advice if asked. There are many ways to do things, and my way isn't always the other guys way.

I certainly can understand the trans cooler line issue, as that is a real safety issue.... Some guys have their own ideas about electrical. Fuses save cars! But if I'm not asked I'm not going to tear another guy's car apart. I may ask some leading questions in order to get to that point.

Yet another reason to run a manual transmission!

 

I will post a reply if the OP asks for advice and there is some experience or I can be helpful in that area. A tactful and respectful reply. Any blow back or inappropriate replies- I move on.

 

The thing about "not sharing information and opinions" unless asked, is that the person who asked the question is going to have a lot less information that might prove helpful. No one has to take another persons suggestions, but it seldom hurts to listen to what they have to say. There are lots of times that the unsolicited information may contain details that are adaptable to what you are doing. Think about it, the more information that you have, the better choices you can make. Yes, people don't always say things in the best way, and some are blowhards that you have to simply discount, but in the long run the sifting of information gathered from many sources usually allows one to make a better decision than limiting what you are willing to consider.
Many of the people who provide that irrelevant information mean well, and when they take the time to offer that unsolicited help, I listen and take it in the intended manner. Along with that, you get a few obnoxious ones, just part of the sifting process..........but sometimes you even learn something from the obnoxious ones too! Like I said, it doesn't hurt anyone to listen to unwanted unsolicited info, its the important info that no one told you about that hurts you the most.

So I guess that puts me in the "Speaking Up" camp.

 

"Seek, and ye shall find," but you might not like what you find.

 

Personally, while I have a pretty dang good skill set, I'm not so set in my ways that good advice is ignored. I always welcome it, especially when it comes to safety concerns.
But I also think that a person needs to research that advice to gauge the validity. And when offering unsolicited advice, I never say "Dude, your doing it wrong!" I usually phrase it in the form of a question, "Have you thought of....?" It's then up to that person to look into it.....or not!
And never EVER say "I so informed you thusly!"

 

In my younger years, I was the guy that spoke up! With varied results! As an old guy I just look and mostly just keep my mouth shut! But I still listen! Never too old to learn!








Bones

 

I'm always willing to give unsolicited advice/opinions at the drop of a hat...probably why I don't have any friends

 

As they say, "See something, say something." The only way to remedy a thick skull is with thick skin.

 

I find here and other sites that we, me included, find ourselves answering questions not asked and continuing on with a paragraph when a “yer or no” was the only request by the writer.

Example from another engine/car website I’m on: question. Would a 4 blade fan be better than the 3 blade currently on the engine? He had 20 responses on how to fix the cooling problem he had but at no time was a cooling problem ever mentioned. I know I over think everything and on this site I do is delete answers after what thought would help is either ignored or wrong. I hope I’ve learned to listen more over time instead of inserting foot to quickly.

 

Lot of the cars I've seen over the years, aren't done to a very high standard, not from $, mostly sloppy work. I generally keep quiet, it's their ride and theyre driving and having fun. That's what its about.

Safety stuff, it's worth mentioning, in a constructive way. But, expect a 50% rate of getting told to F off.

 

Why would you make your own trans lines out of un-reinforced rubber tube? A local hose shop here quoted me about 60$ each for proper lines with nice ends.

 

I seldom give advice unless asked unless it is a serious safety issue-then very carefully. I have wired a lot of cars and a few 7 and 8 second drag cars. At the track someone will have an electrical issue and ask if I will ***ist-yep no problem. I get calls too when they are at various tracks with an issue-some not cars I had a hand in. I try to lead them thru it via phone. My friend is always there racing and I have helped him with electrical knowledge and helped him get good meters as well-usually can ***ess the issue.

 

You were right, he was wrong and paid the price. I see no issues in this touchy feely world we live in.

 

On the subject of flex lines, is braded brake hose acceptable for front to back application?
My bro, is doing this on his old goat. I told him he better support the **** out of it, in case he has to take it off road.
The front flex lines seem to be little plastic coated with braid underneath and probably a tube within that, all foreign to me.
I`m old school and would prefer to see hard lines. He can`t find pre bent hardline kits and doesn`t want to bother with bending his own.

 

I hate those loud mouth jerk off's...The know it all know nothings? I know a couple of them and they irritate the hell out of me. Always talking about what they would have done if it were their build while looking at the owner.
One of these clowns has been kicked out of people's garages due to his know it all at***ude.
Aside from a safety concern, I like to keep my mouth shut due to fact that I don't know the reasoning behind someone's thinking.
I don't mind at all being told something if the person knows what they are talking about. Safety and mechanical ability are my main concerns and I'll take a triple look at something that is pointed out to me on my stuff.
But for some loud mouth jerk off to talk? "Get the **** out of here, clown!"

 

That's really it, general statements, not going after your brother. There a lot of sloppy work, just lazy or lack of knowledge.

- I don't want to go the the store to get right hose or line - so I'll use this random **** that's been laying in the corner for 10 years.

- I don't want to make hard fuel lines, so I'll use this "kit" for full length ch***is fuel hose.

- I'll go ahead and use this auto parts store crimp connector and some electrical tape to put a second or third splice in the wire, cause I don't want to get under the dash to run a new wire.

- bottom of fender pulled in 1/4"....it's fine..... it's a pack of shims and some time and can be fixed anytime.

- why sand or degrease the jams and panel edges. Blow paint on and have it chip off in a year.

These are the things that I just walk by, nod and say have a fun day, enjoy the drive.

A lot of little things that are not money related to make a nice car or a ratty car. Woulda taken a little time to do right, but...

 

I am fine with someone that has demonstrable expertise, or actual do***entable proof weighing in, good or bad.

Opinions that lack any sort or sound reasoning, or any presentable evidence are not only useless, but are also rude.

All too often when I challenge someone to present their evidence, they cannot. They are just repeating something that they either read on the internet, or heard repeated by their cousin's step-brother's step-sister's third-uncle (once removed).

 

Well , that’s why this is a great place . I can read all your views based on your past experience because you did this and done that on these old car and trucks we love. Plus I get history lessons almost everyday here and see some rare speed parts.

 

I don't get this. This can be done with an inexpensive bender, and about 2-3 hours.

I also don't get that this was not found: https://www.inlinetube.com/

They make pre-bent hardline kits for every year that nameplate was used in the US, from 1964-2006.