Technical Olds 324 Transmission Adapter Question

Hello HAMB'ers,

I need ***istance please. I've already done an extensive thread research and found nothing for my application. This is what I need, and what I'm working with:

I need to know what clutch, pressure plate, clutch fork and throw out bearing (and input shaft adapter if applicable) that I will need. Here's what I'm working with:

1956 Oldsmobile 324 Engine
1956 Ford 3-speed transmission (1 1/16" input shaft with 10 splines)
1950's era Crager transmission adapter
Schiefer Flywheel 145 tooth (which I believe is for an 49-53 Olds 303 Engine)

Like many of you, I'm on a budget and want to use what I have. The correct parts information is very much appreciated.

Chris

 

That adapter "should" allow you to use the Ford transmission and throw out lever. You can use a Ford disc of the proper diameter plus a pilot bearing adapter to go to the Olds crankshaft. I think, it's been a loooog time since I did one. But, if you are using a Long style pressure plate, you should be able to use a Ford throw out bearing. Can somebody verify that for us

 

56 crank may need to be drilled for the pilot, if it has not been done yet.
What lower torus do you have? 56 unit will be for the larger 12 volt starter and larger flywheel.
Post up some casting/part numbers of the torus and your starter.

 

starter numbers for reference
Most Olds starters start with 110********x
here is a list:
7922 42-48
7050 42-47 6 cyl
7930 42-47 8 cyl
7955 49-50 6 cyl
7956 49-51 8 cyl 6 volt 145 flywheel
7997 52 all 145 flywheel
7603 53 12 volt 145 flywheel
7623 54-55 12 volt 176 flywheel
7638 56 12 volt 176 flywheel

 

and torus id's

 

Post up a pic of the front of that flywheel please.
Also the part number on that ****** adapter. Someone may have the old catalog and can check for parts required or notes pertaining to using it behind an Olds. I know transdapt has notes spelling out parts required.

 

@Paul may add to this for you.

 

Good advice so far

 

I appreciate the information. I have no starter and I feel ridiculous for asking, but what is a torus? Here is a picture of the front of the flywheel and the back of my motor/crankshaft

 

Also There's no casting number on the Crager adapter,

 

I have a Bell Auto Parts catalogue 1966 with the Cragar adapters listed and for 49-64 Olds to 49-65 Ford transmissions it lists Part #10-3040 for the adapter and 10-3011 for the Pilot Bearing Adapter which is supplied when you buy the adapter. BUT you also need the starter adapter which is Part #69-SP319K. Back in 66 the adapter cost $36.00 and the starter adapter was a complex cast piece costing $32.12.
If your engine was the Jet-a-way model then you needed #10-3012 Pilot Bearing Adapter.
Unfortunately I am not smart enough to post the 2 pages from the catalog which has pictures of all the parts mentioned above.
Apparently complete installation instructions were supplied with each adapter and I would ***ume that included details re clutch, flywheel etc.
I could take pics of the 2 pages and email if you are interested.

 

Not to be a pedant, but if you are doing web searches, your search engine might not know to correct your misspelling of the company name, as it a proper noun.

Try Cragar, instead of Crager.

"In 1930, a company that would grow to be an enormous part of Roy Richter’s life, was founded by a man named Crane Gartz; Cragar® Corporation. The Cragar® name was established by combining the first three letters in Crane Gartz’s first and last name. After two years of watching the company thrive, George Wight made an offer to Gartz for Cragar patters and fixtures, and by 1933 he could call the company solely his own."

https://www.cragarwheel.com/heritage/

 

The flywheel surface is a bronze insert. They made a clutch with the same insert or face. I do not know if a normal clutch will work well with that bronze insert on the flywheel. Others may chime in here. hate to have you get this all done only to find out that it chatters or worse.
Torus is the lower housing that bolts up to the bell housing and has the starter mounting hole. they are different between the years.
Looks like the crank is drilled already.
There is a number on the left side of the block near the center exhaust port on a tab. Can you post that up. Looks like this:

 

Also, Ross Racing has gear reduction starters for all the applications if you get in a starter bind. (no pun intended)

 

Thank you everyone for all your help. I really appreciate it. Hopefully I can get all the correct/missing parts to make this all work properly together.

 

Here is my lower housing. I looked and didn't see a number on the block like your picture. You have been very helpful!

 

Thank you for the history lesson. Can you help answer the questions in my original post please? Thank you.

 

Thank you for the information. Yes I would love pictures. Ill send you a private message with my email address.

 

Chris the lower housing then is the Hildebrandt starter changeover piece. I have not used one of those for over 50 years so I cannot recall what starter is needed but I suspect @Paul would know as he has used these lately on his builds.

 

That Lower bell is the one you want. It relocates the starter to the P*** side, from the factory they mounted on the Dr side. Just make sure the starter mounting threads are in good shape they are often stripped or pulled completely out on them.

 

It should work with either olds starter for 176 or 145 tooth nthat you liosted above, 7603 53 12 volt 145 flywheel
7623 54-55 12 volt 176 flywheel, 7638 56 12 volt 176 flywheel, once again the varible is the flywheel. It does put the starter right in the way of the oil filter adapter, so you will need a remote oil filter adapter to make the needed clearence for the starter. I have been told that a Cadilac starter of the same vintage and flywheel tooth can also be used, and will put the solenoid up rather than down like it will with the side swapped olds.

 

That's an aftermarket starter switch-over adapter. It moves the starter to the p***enger's side to help with steering box clearance in engine swaps. It's a good piece to have. This is a stock Olds version. The old Motor Manuals call it the lower flywheel housing, we always called it the starter housing. Technically, the "Torus" is a specific part used with the Hydramatic transmissions.


Measure the friction surface of your flywheel, it should be around 10 1/2" or 11". I think you will find that a clutch disc and pressure plate for your '56 Ford transmission will fit. You may have to research car and truck listings. Same with the clutch fork. I believe there may be several different throw-out bearings so you'll have to bolt everything together and measure what length you need or start with the '56 Ford version.
That flywheel surface may make the clutch a little "grabby" but it should be ok once you get used to it. Pay attention to the clearance between the center of the clutch disc and the heads of the flywheel bolts. There's sometimes interference there when swapping parts.
You'll want to bolt the bellhousing to the engine and measure from the transmission mounting surface to the bottom of the pilot bearing hole. Then measure the transmission from the mounting surface to the tip of the input shaft. Also measure the diameters and compare. Some of the old companies provided a special pilot bearing adapter to make up for a slightly short input shaft or different pilot diameters.

 

WOW! This is great information! Earlier in the thread, vtwhead posted some starters and ID numbers and according to this information, starter # 7603 53 12 volt for a 145 tooth flywheel is the one to use.

 

Sure, but you might not like some of the answers.

That flywheel might be more of a conversation piece or a garage ornament.

The reason for that is the sintered bronze insert. That tends to be an old-school race-only thing. They are plenty grippy, but will wear much faster than you might consider acceptable. Fast enough that a modern clutch lining might eat it before the clutch lining wears out. There is a solid reason why just about all inserts on aluminum flywheels are steel now.

That said, it would have had a an organic lining, which back in the day would have been chock full of our friend Asbestos! These days they are not. If you are going ahead with using it, organic on the flywheel side is a must. The pressure plate side is up to you, if you want to do something fancy, like Kevlar.

It is possible that you will need to have a clutch disc made for this application if this is a non-standard diameter. There are still quite a few clutch shops out there that can pull this off.

From the bolt pattern on the flywheel this would use a "long style" pressure plate, common to Ford applications of that era. This is a likely indicator that the clutch ***embly is linked to the transmission being adapted.

That looks like this:

*Not the correct disc in picture.

The advertised diameter of the disc would be the outer diameter of the sintered bronze insert. Yours appears to be about 11-inches, but is hard to tell from a picture. Please measure the diameter of the insert and post what you find. That will help narrow down the clutch disc.

The transmission mounting pattern is Ford "narrow toploader". That transmission mount pattern was used from 1949-1964, and the clutch for pivot appears to be of that same vintage. The clutch fork attaches to it with a spring clip.

The clutch fork would look roughly like this:

You can see the spot where it rocks on the pivot.

This is a later pivot, same design, where it is a separate piece that is attached to the bellhousing. I cannot tell if yours is separate, but it should have a profile that roughly matches this:



The "ears" do not matter as much as the little tab in the center that captures the spring clip.


This is the annoying spring that keeps the fork from falling off when you are trying to get set up:

As for the throw out bearing, that would be matched to the pressure plate. It would need to be slip fit over the input shaft collar. As the clutch evidence appears to be Ford, that probably holds true there, too. Ford used the same size stuff for more years that some might believe.

Based on the evidence presented, I am going to put my best guess on this just needing a Ford p***enger car clutch ***embly from that, or close to that era.

To add to the certainty, a randomly selected example of a 1958 Ford Fairlane clutch shows 1-1/16" 10-splines on the hub, and would have had a p***enger car narrow top loader transmission.

Such as: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-75111/make/ford/model/fairlane/year/1958

The pilot bushing, on the other hand, might have to straight-up be made on a lathe. Any machine shop can do that out of a hunk of Oilite bronze stock, and a bit of measuring.

 

Back in the 60's when I did it I had a 55 Olds engine,std shift, used an 11" truck p/plate and a 10 1/2" disc, proper pilot bearing adapter to the 39 trans and the h/brandt starter cross over. FWIW
Paul in CT

 

If I remember correctly, the input shaft on that was 1-3/8", rather than the OP's 1-1/16", but my memory is fuzzy.

 

Seems like you’ve got some good information to get you started. Keep us posted as you get this thing together with pictures and current part numbers so others can learn, and don’t be afraid to ask more questions.

 

This fork pivot is cast-in, but it appears to have a separate tab for the spring clip.


Inside of the fork:


Pivot (cast-on on your adapter), showing spring clip tab:


This would need to be ***embled, fork to adapter, clip to tab, before anything else is put together.

 

Chris contact @smiley458 as he has a bunch of Olds stuff he is selling according to a previous thread I was reading yesterday. He has a 145 tooth Olds flywheel that will save you a lot of grief. As Gimp suggested the Scheifer may make some good garage art like the one that hangs on my wall.

 

So I did some further research and in one of my books that I forgot I had. It lists many of the more popular engine to transmission adapter information. The book was printed in 1958 and the information was contributed by MOON. It doesn't provide the type of throw out bearing or pilot bearing adapter, but does give lots of other information. I'm guessing that whatever year/make transmission you're running you will use the corresponding throw out bearing for the same year, and for the starter, you would use a starter that corresponds to your stock flywheel.

Hopefully this will help others out there in HAMB land.