I'm collecting parts for my 29 roadster for the winter tear down and trying to keep the car as pre-war/war-time as possible. I'm putting in a 39 drivetrain I picked up and am rebuilding now but will probably need to run a smaller and better steering box. What did the early guys run other than a stock box? I suppose I could rebuild my 29 box, it's a good candidate but they have lots to be desired and will be a tight fit with the flathead. I've done the F-1 boxes before but considering they didn't exist yet for the period I'm going for it doesn't make sense. Are there any boxes guys ran in the early days (not even considering cowl steering)? Thanks!
Way back in the 70s I put a cast iron reverest corvair through the original hole in my 34. I think the ford pitman arm fit.
32, 33-34 boxes if you can find one. Iron trap Garage just put one in a 29 on Utube. Well worth watching.If you want cross steering the 37-48 is a good box.
I used a Stock 40 Ford unit. Just seemed Ford in a Ford with Ford power was the easy way to go for me. I'm using a 37 Dash and stock gauges. Paying attention to how I mounted the Dash panel let me bolt the Stock 40 column mount to the factory 37 column mount holes. This was just to easy.
I think you answered you own question there .. Period would most likely mean keeping the original box and just relocating it a wee bit for best clearance.. Its the single most frustrating part of putting a Flathead V8 into an A chassis . You could go cross steer with the 39 box which I understand has the same guts as the F1 and looking at the pics above the cross steer cleans up the chassis a fair bit and looks "proper" Its one of those build problems we always procrastinate over ..
Thank you for the ideas. Pist-n-Broke, I really like what you did with yours. I'll send you a message in a bit with some questions. I'm not against cross-steer by any means if it's what makes the most sense.
I’m not there yet but I’m going with a later two tooth Gemmer Model A box. More adjustable than the 7 tooth and supposed to provide better/easier steering… we’ll see how that goes if I ever get to that point!
A 39 box is just the F-1 turned on its side. If you want a better box than the early 30’s use the 38-40 style with a special mounting bracket. Then you won’t be breaking any timeframe rules.
This wasn't my first go at this style build. I've learned you can't mail order parts to do exactly what you want. It's all about Function first and Looks later. This Roadster will end up being Full Fendered and there isn't any exhaust out there to bolt on and get done what I want. I tell people headed this direction to just plan to build your own as needed. Dodge the disappointment of out of the Box junk. There is a reason my Header is inside the body line, not my first hand built set either. Your second and third set become fun and then comes function. Try it, you'll like it! It should just be in your plans.
P.S. I built the steering gear mount bracket also. It's just what I do. The stock 35-40 one wasn't doing the job.
The cross steer boxes can be utilized as side steer by rotating them so the pitman comes out the side. The arm will need to point up instead of down or it will steer backwards. You may find that arm orientation useful if the car is lowered a lot and the drag link wants to end up in a funky/extreme angle. Also, I believe the guts out of a cross steer 35-36 box will fit the 32-34 boxes so it might make the installation easier. I haven't tried it personally (yet) but the boxes look darn similar. All this crap requires fabrication obviously.
If you cheap out and do the A... Upgrade to the later 2 tooth box as it has adjustment and is far better suited for driving and lasting. Only downside is having the stock A box normally has steering shaft right next to the head... Ive done the F1 and yeah they are more of a late 40s style than a 30s style... I like the 39-40 box as shown above, cross steer drives damn good also when done right.
There are other steering boxes like Germer boxes from tractors that can work and be period correct also. There was alot of other car manufactures that made good boxes also. But I think cross steer is your friend in this instance now.
I put a shorter arm from a AA truck (you can get new) on a 30 roadster once and it steered so much better. If the box was rebuilt it would have felt even better. Go for the 30/31 box and move it back so it clears things.
I really appreciate the ideas on this one. I scored a great deal on a 33 box and column so I have that idea to play with and will be on the look out at the swap tomorrow for some different solutions but a cross steer 40 is sounding pretty nice. More to follow!
Am I thinking backwards here, or doesn't a shorter pitman arm increase the pressure needed at the steering wheel also creating less turn ratio at the tires for given turn at the steering wheel?
You can keep the Pitman arm pointing down if the donor box is from a "rear steer" Car with a trailing Pitman arm. Or "front steering" with a leading Pitman arm This is why Corvair and Vega boxes needed to be reversed A suitable candidate on a lightweight vehicle would be a VW 1302S steering box [MacStrut Beetle] This would be way better than trying to re-engineer /tamper with steering components The box is relatively easy to mount, and would also allow the use of a collapsible column. [and U joints] some BMW 2002's have a similar steering box configuration [some are R&P]
If you dig out the little books especially the East coast Little books from the 50's and early 60's the 4o box was pretty much the go to box.
On the 34 that I am building, I'm gunna try ... 40 box turned sideways, grafted to the 34 snout. Pitman arm straight up.
Did my deuce pickup with a 37 Hudson box thru the stock hole, built by Neal Jennings. Also used 32-34 tie rod ends, 32-34 spindles and a 34 pitman arm, and split 32 bones.
Well I was able to score a nice 33 box and a 40 box at the good guys swap yesterday so I've got some things to play with this week. Plus somehow came home with another flathead lol
Depending upon what parts you already have might make the decision easy as well. The cross-steer setup is going to require a different passenger side steering arm than the Model A (two tie rods) while the side steer box ('33) will require the same as the stock Model A setup, more or less. Also keep in mind that you might find that the steering wheel angle might not be what you want if you go with a cross-steer box and have to mount if too far forward. The farther forward you go with the box, the more the column is going to need to "lay down" resulting in a steeper steering wheel angle vs. Model A. See Post 4. If you have a stock Model A front end, I'd go with the '33 box. Take the time and rebuild it properly and if the sector or worm gear have any pitting, replace them with new or better parts. Bearings and races as well. That should give you a very nice steering system and keep it within the time frame. FYI, I rebuilt the 2-tooth box in my '30 Coupe and used a shortened pitman arm, steers very nice.
I understand your time period thing but why try to reinvent the wheel? F-1 box’s are the tried and true piece. I don’t think one person would notice an f1 box. You said you are running a 39 motor, the 59ab ended in 1948 and I doubt many folks could tell the difference between a 39 motor and a 48. Same with the steering box. Just my two cents, I’m not trying to stir the pot.
I would never put a passenger car OEM steering in a hot rod or a car intended for high performance driving. I use race car steerings, especially the power type. They can be adjusted for the amount of assist, amount of feedback and feel. They are also designed stout enough to not fail in a wreck. The midget and small sprint car units are compact enough to fit in almost any hot rod with room to spare for either swing or floor pedals. This is NOT cowl steering when installed on the frame. Machine work required.
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