History Why is the flathead V8 so popular but the straight 8's not?

A large faction of Hambers don't build their cars with any real notion of it being "fast" when completed. Maybe fast by 1950 standards, but leaning more toward nostalgia and even novelty. I say that because of not only engine choice, but often the use of nostalgic "speed" equipment that often looks as though it provides no real performance increase because of its design. For the most part I'm talking about many of the intake manifolds. Nothing wrong with building a vehicle that "looks" cl***ic if thats what someone likes.........but its usually easy to see that the builder really wasn't really going after performance.
In that vein, I think a straight eight fits right in, and would garner a lot of interest at rod runs and maybe even nostalgia drags. It should perform pretty well on the highway with some proper gearing adapted behind it. It would definitely take some dedication to build one, but as far as true 1950s speeds go, it should beat a lot of flatheads and maybe a few of the earlier V8s.

As for the "boring" aspect of installing some of the more modern versions of Chevy's, that quickly disappears with rapid application of the gas pedal......anything but boring in my opinion............

 

Yes this is kind of my point. Why do so many shun the I8, and instead of living with it put in some V8 often Chevy. Most Hot Rod's are not comparatively fast anymore, production cars with AC, nice seats, insulation, EPA approval have become very fast. If you want to go fast (with an American car) go buy a modern MOPAR muscle, a Hellcat on credit or a 10 year old or newer Corvette or any Tesla.

Hot Roding has become having something cool not really going fast, see above.

I8, Early Hemi, Flathead, Caddie 500 are all not very good with respect to cost, weight power or size but way cool.

 

The HAMB is about traditional cars. If you want to understand why the cars that we venerate were built the way they were, you have to put your mind into that era, and see only what was available at the time, and what the goals were at that time. Just because I8s seem cool now, they sure didn't back then, so the cars back then didn't use them, and the tradition is to use a V8.

I agree that I8s are really neat engines....if you can build a car with one, go for it! but don't imagine that it's a traditional car, in the true sense of the word.

 

Yeah exactly! It is not about speed compared to modern standards.

I put a stock Buick 320 Cui with a T5 in a 2850 lbs car. It is fast by 1950 standards. The motor even killed the 1st gear due to the m***ive torque, heavy flywheel, and crank. Starting in second now. 2.93:1 in the rear axle, 0.78 on fifth. Cruises nicely at 75 Mph in fifth at 2350 rpm. 0-60 no clue maybe 9 or 10 seconds, never measured.

 

In the simplest terms The flathead was the the predicessor of the Small block Chevy V8 as far as the hot rod world went. Inexpensive to buy, lots of speed parts available and just like Chevy parts if you hunted a bit you could find good used speed parts cheap. The simple fact that they were easy to bolt into earlier Fords such as Model A's didn't hurt. Hard as hell to stick a Packard straight 8 into a Model A.
Throw in that a lot of the detractors at the time badmouthed Flatheads the same way they badmouth Small block Chevy engines now. The cheap and too easy to build thing was around then it just was about flatheads rather than small blocks.

 

Cool, keep it running!

 

This one fit...sorta.

 

Jim, I grew up in the "fifties", and at the time there was no real organization to what was going on with motors. Yes there were plenty of flathead engines because they were made for about 20 years.......but at that time the push was to upgrade to "any" kind of engine that made more power. I had a couple of flathead powered Fords........and no money. They were real dogs. People were willing to try virtually any engine they could get cheaply. Some obviously became more popular and were more available, and an industry grew around those engines..........but true hot rodders of the day swapped every kind of engine. The garage that I hung out at, had two guys with dragsters. One guy ran a big block Ford and the other guy swapped back and forth between an Olds and a Cadillac. I had a 49 Lincoln with a 326 (I think) flathead V8 and a 33 Ford with a 365 Cad. I was there.........I know what people did.......especially people who didn't have any extra money. We even had a guy with a GMC Supercharged 58 Olds convertible. Remember lining up on a 4 lane street and racing 4 cars at a time, they even took the dragster out on the street for a test run.........went thru a red lite because the brakes wouldn't stop it. This was all "in town", in neighborhoods, not out on rural roads. No, there was no real organized choice of engines in the fifties and earlier. I was there and I lived it...........

Edit: In the early 60s I was in Napa California in the Navy and went to see some of the drag strips. I remember seeing "Big Al" Allison powered 34 Ford. Just an example of what people were doing in the search for more power. Not everyone wanted or used the popular engines but tradition encomp***es more than just the popular engines.
https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-allison-powered-monsters-of-jim-lytle/

 

Thank you, sir

Ben

 

How bout this..........Ben Sounds pretty Bad A**........don't it?




Notice the Hamb plate on the dash.

This last video has some good info while its not totally about hot rods. Has a nice Buick near the end. I'd consider adapting something like a Fluid dampener or ATI dampener on a straight eight if you plan to run higher rpms.

 

Length and weight a 320 buick is around 800lbs.

 

Does anyone make an aluminum head for it?
Yep, definitely gonna need some good shocks and springs under the front end.

 

Drive a car with a decent running straight 8, you'll see why.

 

yup....the flathead Ford V8 was king until the OHV V8s came along, then they took over. None of your buddys were running straight 8s, though, were they?

I'm trying to help you'all understand, but it'll only work if you read what I say, and think about it. It won't work if you immediately say I'm full of ****.

 

Picture is reversed,

Ben

 

I live my flathead. Is it a dog? Yeahhhhh.... Haha.

People hear the lake pipes and say "is it fast?", and I tell um 'in 1952 it was....'....

 

Those flattie heads are pretty darn ***y..........
Especially with a bushel of chrome acorn nuts or finned aluminum. And with the carbs lined up down the middle, they just look so righteous.
The straight 8s have a more industrial look and so much of what bolts on has to hang off the side like a rodeo trick rider. But don't get me wrong....... I like straight 8s.and I'll automatically give 'em extra points for coloring outside the lines. Hot rods should never become cookie-cutter, non-statements.

 

Traditional...with straight 8.

 

Okay, you win. How can anyone argue when presented with such complelling photographic evidence.

 

I can't remember who it was, but I believe it was somebody important was interviewed years ago in one of the magazines. It might somewhat illustrate how important the flathead V8 was in the hot rodding world.

He was expressing how hot rodders back then never expected that the flathead V8 would ever be replaced.

He said...
"We thought that was it."

 

This discussion kinda reminds me of why Land Rover is forever romanticized with when the Land Cruiser was/is the superior off-road vehicle. Of course I’m biased. Lol!

 

Exactly. I agree 100%. Most street rodders can't think outside the box. They follow the crowd. Some ignorant street rodder told them if you want to drive it you need a sbc. Then they trailer their car to shows. It takes a hot rodder to look at what he has and make a way cool dependable hot rod out of it. A street rodder picks up a catalogue and makes something from that. Not enough hot rodders around any more. It's all to hard for street rodders. You need some mechanical ability and understanding and be willing to put some effort in to be a hot rodder.

 

The spaces left by the flathead made a perfect ft for the CADDY powerplants......OHV rule.

 

Buick straight 8 engines are actually quite popular...
A**** those who own old Buicks.

 

Power plants and horsepower are all relevant to the specific timeframe to the build style you are after. My car will be fast for the pre -40`s build style I`m after. But slow in acceleration as compared today. But it will be able to go down the highway at 65.

 

That's not what I said or what I implied Jim. I'm older than you and if you didn't grow up in the fifties, you only have second hand knowledge of how things really were. There were a lot of cars out there that were hacked and cut and butchered to make anything fit in anything. Experience and knowledge was not as freely available and people learned more from their mistakes than from books and videos in those days. I'm going to attach a picture of a couple of "dragsters". One had a Chevy and the other had a Packard engine. Look at the frame and wheels and see how people used "what they had" and made it work for them. You are correct that I don't personally remember anyone swapping a straight 8 Buick into anything...........but that doesn't mean that people who owned Buicks didn't hot rod them. During the fifties flatheads went from being sought after to being probably the most replaced engine in the world. Virtually any OHV engine would outrun one.....even some of the Chevy OHV 6 cylinder engines often outran them. Chevy quickly became dominant because of its lite weight and compact size and an aftermarket that rode the wave of success. The others gradually fell by the wayside due to a lack of aftermarket support and smaller numbers of them being available. Many of the companies went out of business or consolidated with other companies to survive.
Trying to help someone understand is a two way street. I feel I'm just trying to help you understand what the fifties were really like, and I can tell you that not all the things driving around on the streets were well done, or even moderately safe to drive.......but I will say unequivocally that any engine that could outrun a flathead got hot rodded by someone. In the fifties, the Chevy was building its reputation but was not dominent yet........so people tried all sorts of things. Thats how it really was. So please don't get your shorts wrapped too tight because I'm trying to help you to understand.

As luck would have it (divine providence ?), I was sitting in my car this morning waiting for my wife who had a doctors appt. To p*** the time I had issue #67 of the Rodders Journal along and was perusing it when I came accross the following pictures.


Even an Edsel for a support Car. They used what they could s****e together.

So Jim, don't get upset because I'm not the one who wrote the script for the 50's, I was just one of the people following along and trying to figure things out like everyone else.

 

I wasn't searching, but picked up a book I had looking for some ideas for a car I'm going to buy. It too had a bunch of info/pics that showed how people built cheap hot rods and used everything imaginable to make them. I'd never paid much attention to the large number of less popular engines used by many name racers and well known rodders before Chevy got such a firm grip on the market. This was just some of the many examples in the book, and I thought maybe some of the old guys might enjoy a trip down memory lane.

 

Interesting points of view all around. I too came up in the fifties, but was more interested in bicycles than cars until the late fifties. Hung out in shops and garages learning. Flatheads were just more plentiful, cash was tight, and they got used.
Fast forward to today where I think the OP is targeting. Flatheads are used more as they are more easily found. I have a 248 Buick straight 8 in the shop floor right now with a car to put it in. Poured babbitt bearings that my machine shop won't do, extremely limited places for parts, and at best 125 HP. They do sound good (not as good as a Seagrave V12) but in the end not sure if cost justified.

 

If you want to be different but "period correct ", do what Ak Miller did...he yanked the Ford flathead out of his '32 and replaced it with a Cadillac flathead.