Will it work? 235 Intake concept discussion

Where to start... well right in the middle I guess. As shown in the sketches below I am trying to hash out ideas for a tripple carb intake for a 235. My 235. The 3 pieces will be identicle so only 1 small mold would be needed for the for the shape and a mold for the p***ageways.

The 3 intakes will be linked like a log style intake to equalize them out a bit. There also will be a p***age for heat from the cooling system or exhaust to heat the area on the first turn under the carb. They would be linked from carb to carb also. If it were coolent I would probably link with a rubber hose and if exhaust heated then with some kind of metal tubing bent to fit. The intake portion would be linked with tubing. I am thinking that the intake pieces would be drilled and tapped then a fitting inserted for the tubing of whatever variety. The top hole is undetermined as to sizing for a single or double carb but I am leaning to 3 singles.

The intakes will have a forward offset to bring then away from the firewall but not to the point of looking dumb.


The original idea was to build a furnace and cast my own but I was given the name of a local place that just might be affordable for a small run. I am in the process of creating mockups of each to see how they would look and so I can take them an example to get me a quote on.

So what I need is some bench rodding. The sketches are initial ideas so they are on the rough side but am I missing some major aspect by making them all individually? Here are the 2 ideas I have been milling over. They have a reduced verticle heigth because with a carb and a filter I am out of room under the hood.

 

I've seen uglier home-brews that work. Running heat to them may reduce your horsepower, but helps in the winter, so that's a toss-up. Exhaust heat might get too hot, I'd think coolant wold be more friendly to the fuel/air charge. It's a good look, so you've got that nailed from the start at least.

 

warbozz - you should have come to Greaserama! I saw a bunch of cars that could have used your metal polishing services!!!!

 

you thinkin 3 rochesters? could be a neat setup. if you got it all laid out in a 3d model, CNCed billet might be easier. you could media blast them to look cast I might be able to make that with a lathe. I've been looking for an excuse to buy a lathe

 

It looks pretty similar to the Harper intakes from the 50s that were set up for 3-bolt Strombergs. However, the Harpers had no provision for manifold heat, so in that respect, your design should be much more streetable.

 

The Harper intake did have a balance tube running between all three runners to even out pulses, which is probably a good idea.

 

Harper intake? That is one I have not run into. "I googled" it and found nothing. But I would like to know more about them.

 

You would need to connect the runners/plenum chambers some way (rubber hose). Otherwise, they would be a real dog to tune and balance.
I want the first set.
r

 

That looks really cool. Give me PM when you decide to make these. I work for a prototyping company here in Austin, Texas. Should be able to prototype with plastic for mock fit and provide patterns should you decide to cast. Would love to see how they look and perform on a 235. I know I would buy a set.

 

Try it without the log first, you'll probably like it better. I think it's a good setup. I've thought about it several times myself. Let me know how it works out. I'm also interested in how it idles, with it all separate, it should be a bit wilder. If ya do it, keep us updated the whole way.

(HUGE 235 fan)

 

I liked intake 2 better because the bend is more gradual, that should increase your flow and reduce fuel pooling at the bend , and the runner is longer , better at low rpm's which is where 6 cylinders live. Cool idea!

 

Ya I was thinking about length. But it seems you never can get it as long as they really need! I will however take some good measurements and plug out an equasion or two for a good middle ground. My 57 is a family cruiser so that is what the design will be tuned for.

53sled- I dont know about the Rochesters. They don't like me very much. I don't know if its the right solution but the Carter YF I currently run does a decent job.

El Guapo - I would like to know more about the prototyping you do. I am currently carving out the longer design from a high density styrene used in the modeling field. I will have to cut the prototype in half to do the runners. I am not looking forward to that.

 

Cool idea/concept. Please keep us informed. in the one picture it showed the runners facing forward so the carbs would be 'pushed' toward the front of the motor....SUPER good idea, i got a 3x1 offy on my 54 chevy and had to do some modification to the firewall to get the back carb to not hit it. As everyone else said, i'd be in for one if you get production...


Jeff

 

I'm being dense here. How does the heating work? Is there a tube running through each one, or are you relying on conduction through the outer wall?

It almost looks like something you could make up out of some rectangular tubing and some machined plates. That isn't as cool as a casting, but it might be a good way to fab up a prototype and work out the details and linkage mounting points before you pay for molds...

 

Either one should work. I personslly prefer the "log" concept. The heat factor is something you should consider in your design. You really don't want to "boil" fuel if you can avoid it! Position your carbs up and away from all the heat sources such as exhaust manifold (or tubes) as much as possible.

...been around a while;...work well with crowds;..cool under fire.

 

the outcropping on the curve under where the carb is mounted will have a p***ageway through it. The idea would be to tap it and insert a fitting to connect the intakes with whatever. You would run hose to your cooling system from the first and third one. The middle would be joined inline.

If I need to equalize the runners by tying the 3 together I would do something similar. The intake piece would have indication marks as to where to drill and tap. Then just add tubing and your clamp of chioce.

Intakes would come without being drilled for connecting runners but would be drilled and tapped for heat.

 

that makes sense about not boiling the fuel.

 

yeah, keep me in the loop...those things look like they'd be real nice....and i'd be interested in them as well.

 

I'm know intake expert but one thing I read about the merits of tying the multiple carbs together is that when you use one carb per cylinder (in your case one carb per two cylinders) each carb needs to be sized for the full requirement of that cylinder. When a plenum ties multiple cylinders together the total carb flow can be less than the sum of the single cylinders because thay are not all drawing at the same time. For what its worth.
John

 

I've been throwing around similar designs for the past couple years now, something similar to your first sketch, intake runners slanted forwards for firewall clearance, equalizer tube cast in to make it a one piece intake, and the mounting rings (around the ports) cast in and machined for those that are missing them and can't find replacements...I just haven't gotten around to building the prototypes yet since I'm so busy doing everything else and still working out the design flaws such as heat from stock manifolds (which I've been wanting to eliminate altogether)...

 

Inliners, for the last year or so, I've been working on a multi-carb setup for the 235/261 in my foundry... It's been a LOT of work. Many 'influential' HAMBers know about that 'secret' project, as I asked them for input from the start. It's a project that's consumed my time, energy and creativity. I had to buy and learn how to use a lathe: http://www.royalspeed.com/NEW_LATHE/index.html

It's still to early to show you the first patterns and core boxes but after reading this thread I just wouldnt want people to think I 'ran' with somebody's idea! The concept is just TOTALLY different anyway - but will permit 2 OR 3 carb configurations, with an infinite choice of carbs.

The first prototype will be ready in late fall, and will run 2 Carter W-1's on a 'built' 261.

The only thing I can tell you for the moment is that it WILL work and that it's a simply beautiful system...

Stay tuned, fellas.
whizzerick
- Royalspeed -

 

all hail the Carter W-1's...you've got my full attention, since those are the same carbs I was intending on running...

 

KCsledz-

I have an article from a motorcycle magazine on tuning intake & exhaust runner length that I stole from somewhere on the internet. You want I should email it to you?


Ed

 

The only ad I ever saw for one was a small adverti*****t in the back pages of a 1954-5 Hot Rod magazine. They were quite sophisticated for their time--they ran three Strombergs with the throttle shafts split down the middle, so each throttle plate moved independently of the other. It had an intricate linkage that opened the inside barrel of each carb first, and the outside barrels cut in as the pedal went to the floor.

 

Well, "If you build it they will come". Very interested, would like to run three on my 54 1/2 ton, but, the firewall and fendersupport get in the way. So, I optioned for a dual, but not just yet. Won't be ready till maybe this spring.

Tuning will be a big issue with 1 carb for 2 Cyl.. without a connection to equalize it may cause more problems for the average inliner wanting somthing different.

Also, I think you would have to have a little more serious cam than a bone stocker to make sure it will handle the flow. Most, but not all, use the old trick of blocking the two outers and just run the center on the 3 carb set up.

I like the look and the concept. How about adaptabilty to injection for the race crowd, that would look pretty bad *** with some stacks in a modified or lake roadster. Just food for thought. Definitly will watch this thread!!!

 

Great lathe!!!I wish I had room for one!

Cody

 

Yes send it over! I would love to see what is says. I have done some research on tuning but the more the better.

Cody

 

You may also want to consider casting them with enough meat to allow opening up the ports to GMC size for the Jimmy boys.

 

that's a great idea...for all of us who're looking at making our own designs...I wonder how many of us will succeed? Best of luck to us all, and hopefully we'll all have something to offer in the future...

 

With comments and more sketching and playing with block like shapes in the garage next to a 235 head for mock ups I have decided to travel in this route to flesh out this idea completely.

More of a longer design with a carb mount for a 2bbl. A spacer/adapter will be made to reduce it for singles. The mounting plate will be a drill it yourself jobber so multiple carbs will be able to be used.

2 "wedge shaped nubs" on the runner will be drilled and tapped for an insert to connect the 3 intakes with a tube. Probably be about 3/4" to 1" to start for the tube.

The outermost point will have a water p***ageway that can be used or left as is. It will be a cast p***age that will be cleaned and tapped for hose fittings. You will just plumb them together and run it into you coolent system.