Technical I NEED A GOOD, STIFF BELT

I blew the top seem in my brass radiator playing at the Hotradarama a couple weekends ago in 11 degree pedleton, OR. When I got home I tore the radiator out for repair and whilst cleaning up my defiled flathead...

...I noticed this on my alt/WP belt.

We just had a post on here about notched or toothed belts not designed for running on their backsides over the idler pulley splitting and failing, but this one was designed for it! This is less than 2000 miles wear and just in this one pic you can see three splits in that belt (arrows). Likely it is fractured all the way around and a miracle it hasn't come apart yet!

Bad belt? The idler doesn't bend it severely and I don't think it riding too low in the pulleys. Why is this happening to me? More importantly, how can I avoid it from happening again? I will pull it off the car tonight and check numbers and brand name. Any suggestions, I am all ears.

 

A good stiff belt you say? Well (hiccup) well (hiccup) in that ( hiccup) in that case may I (burp)sug(hiccup) sugg ( hiccup) suggest whiskey (hiccup) ya whiskey. Lol

 

I had to work today and I aint off yet! But there's a high probability of ice in my short term forecast this afternoon.

 

Look at the Gates BX series of belts. Since you know the size, you may be able to find it at Rockauto. Look under industrial belts and there will be a bunch of widths to choose from.

The BX series is their heavy duty line and is toothed or notched to help relieve stress around those bends you have going on.

Sorry that happened to you.

 

Excellent advice. Thanks

 

I wonder if there was some damage not visible to those areas prior to the installation...not by you but perhaps somewhere in the making of of handling and distribution...

Maybe belts being rubber and other materials has a life expectancy whether installed or not...like tires...

Could it have been to tight...

I have a toothed belt...those sure are one of those things to keep an eye on...

 

Hey Billy ,
It’s pretty common to see new belts with cracks soon after being new,,,, (especially on serpentine belts ) .
I remember reading a story on the web about a simple treatment for the rubber and it makes them last like they used to .
Seems like it was a solution of rubber /vinyl protection,,,in a bucket,,,,and you soak the belt in it and wipe off the excess.
Forgive me,,,,I can’t remember the brand of product,,,,,but it’s worth a search and see .

I was curious about the radiator seam splitting,,,,,,,just a fluke,,,,,or excessive pressure build up ?
Check it all closely,,,,,,that’s a beautiful ride,,,,,,we don’t want to see anything get damaged.

Tommy

 

It's hard to say just from your pictures but one thing that I notice is that the belt doesn't fit the alt/gen pulley very well. It's down below the outer diameter. If it is bottoming out, that would make it overheat and drastically shorten it's life.

 

Billy,
I just noticed your idler for the v- belt,,,,,very impressive !
But ,,,to be fair,,,,all of your machines are impressive.

Tommy

 

I’m curious as to what brand of belt that is? I’ve tried several different brands and always end up buying Gates.

 

Billy..... WTF???? That engine is filthy!!! You been out muddin' around in it? I know it's not from driving in the rain lately....
Check tech info for Gates, Dayco, etc. Look for suggested minimum pulley diameters in a 'back wrap' application. I mention this because your idler looks to be fairly small in diameter, which could be over stressing the belt. Can you go to a larger pulley on the generator? Good luck!!
Oh.... and invest in some Mother's Polish!

 

I'd just go with cogged tooth pulleys and never look back. Stainless or aluminum would be my choice.

 

That's a special glare and reflection dulling spray applied to the engine to inspect for any mechanical issues...it washes off with water and returns the former BBgleam...

 

I have a kubota lawn mower. If I buy the deck belt at nappa, a gates belt designed for industrial use, it lasts maybe one summer. Put on a kubota belt, twice the price, lasts forever, or until you put an operator on it that too dumb to step on the clutch pedal when there is smoke and squeeling happening. I won't mention any names. Not really an answer for you, but its all about the belt I'd say

 

I don't know what I put on mine but it's been several years now...do I put 2000 miles per year on it...not sure...our climates are no doubt different...exposure to sunshine and heat also varied...

It's pretty sad that solid brands from the past aren't delivering quality performance even with prices higher and all the tech being updated over the years for longevity...it probably boils down to a cost cutting measure that saved money...

This certainly reminds me at the very least to give a more vigilant look at all things rubber on the Hotrod...including the belt...

 

What a relief to hear! Thanks, I'll be able to sleep tonight now.

 

That bugger looks like it had belt abuse.

 

Billy's been really busy juggling with the collection and definitely connecting the dots as they arise...it's understandable somethings gotta give...we are certainly privileged to be in the shop with him to witness what goes on away from the light of day...your suggestion of the pulley fit may be the magic bullet...

He doesn't cheap out either so it would be really interesting why that happened...it could again just be the climate in his region is hard on rubberized/belted goods...

 

Are you suggesting malicious intent by a phantom deviant...I generally trust people at events and that has fortunately been many, many years now...I hope that wasn't the dealio...

 

What brand and number is the belt?

 

I didn't know they made toothed pulleys for fan belts...I am running one on smooth pulleys...I thought they were universal and if they aren't I've been on quite the science experiment...maybe it's not and I'm imagining things...

 

I have same issue, I think it has to do with running V belt on a to tight of a radius flat Idler? & the belt is going from front side & back side breaking the construction of the belt fibers ,
Same issue between Kubota versus Napa , The AutoZone last longer then Napa . If I cut all My Own grass @ 1 time about 3 hrs , Napa start breaking after 6 cuts , little longer with Autozone,
Kubota 1-1/2 close 2 to years , but if I split up the time they last longer , Im thinking heat & also construction of the different between the belts? !!! Brown & Green .

When it comes to Blower belts I only had problems with 1/2 pitch
(Before kevlar) & that was around 30 years ago , I switch over to 8MM &GT & 14 No issue, & I think idler radius size applies to if Kevlar or not belts running on back side, & how close Idler & pulley are changing directions
I order Gates then cut to size More length options then blower companies offer .

 

from the photos, it appears to be riding low on the alternator pulley. (already mentioned)
Is the tension too tight ??? - how much free play ? - as being too tight puts extra stress on the back side of the belt.
Is it actually a double sided belt, as in do the numbers match up or did the parts guy not know the difference and gave you the wrong one - double sided ones here (as others have stated) are usually two to three times the price.
( I doubt that it is double sided, as what the photos show is typical of how an ordinary belt splits when run on it’s back - just before it lets go……….).

 

You guys must cut a lot of grass. I have a five year old John Deere that I bought new and it still has the original belts on it. I mow two acres every week. I wonder if Deere makes a belt small enough for a Flathead fan belt?

 

^^^^^ it seem's the OEM replacement does not last & not same Quality as off Assembly line when new.

 

I sold my ‘29 A last December with the belts I installed in 2003. I had spare belts in the car because the tensioner I built was just a little off so I thought it would go through belts. People would always point out that pulley. I said well it hasn’t went through a belt since 2003 so it must be ok. It then became a challenge to see how long that belt was gonna last. Guess I’ll never know since I sold it.

 

You do need belts for back side idler. The idler should be in the 3" dia range. I agree that OEM belts are way better, worth every penny of the $$.I have been looking at Lawn tractor deck drive belts, the kevlar or fiberglass reinforced ones. Matching the size is an issue; I guess deferent rulers are used.

 

Actually, we have a pretty mild climate here (except for higher-than-average temperatures the last few years). But wait... you might be onto something...... it's been so friggin' dry this year that the moss on my back has wilted, so maybe you ARE right!
No doubt that Billy will get it solved, he just needs a couple more Crown Royal sessions to find the proper inspiration. Oh... and a couple big ceeegarrs.

 

When you put a new belt on, put layout fluid on the surface of the idler pulley.

Run it for a while and see if the wear pattern in the blue is substantially wider than the wide part of the belt. It it is, it is walking around/tracking on the pulley.

I agree about the vee in the alternator/generator pulley being too deep.

 

If the idler is dead-flat, and you find that the belt is walking/tracking on it (and it is of the type you could chuck in a lathe), I would modify it.

Plot the center of where the belt sits. Plot the belt with. Add 1.5mm on each side. Cut in 1mm at those lines, moving to a 1.5mm cut in the center.

That will stop belt walking/tracking on that pulley.