Ok y’all, my ‘59 GMC (383 sbc, TH400, perm magnet starter) has been plagued with starting problems. I recently installed a Ford solenoid near the battery. Using 2awg battery cables, battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter post on the opposite solenoid post. Start switch to S o n Ford solenoid, jump wire from solenoid post on starter to battery cable post on starter. The thing cranks over great now, but the starter wants to keep spinning after it starts. What am I missing here?
That is exactly how I have the For Solenoids on my 77 Chev 1 ton with a 454 and my 71 GMC with the 500 Cadillac hooked up. There shouldn't be any power to the starter when the solenoid isn't activated. Switch sticking or the solenoid it's self sticking on are the only things that it can be unless somewho you have another wire hooked up to the starter that is providing enough power to the starter to crank when the key is in the pos***ion. That could only be a heavy wire that is connected to the electrical circuit or maybe the alternator that didn't get moved to the Batt side of the Ford Solenoid. The only wire of any kind on the Chevy solenoid should be the battery cable off the Ford Solenoid.
The only wire to the starter other than the 2 gauge from the solenoid is the jumper wire going from the starter solenoid post to the battery post. Could an out of adjustment (tight) starter do this?
Is it a modern Chevy PM starter, or an aftermarket one? Did you have this problem before you installed the big relay?
Didn’t GM use a wire from the starter solenoid to the coil (early on) for full voltage to the coil in the start position? Back feed of some sort? Been a lot of years since I wired an early GM. Johny Gee’s post seems to be that.
Zooming on op’s photo after my question I see his primary feed and start wire and what looks like other wires that got clipped. So ya, not using it.
I put a like to this earlier but that was for question #2. I’ve been thinking about question #1. What issue may be happing for you to ask? But then my brain say’s if the Ford solenoid is working properly and shutting current off to GM starter why would it even be an issue between the two types of starter your asking about?
The type of starter has no bearing on it. As Johnny said in post 9 and I believe I said in post 2 if the Ford starter is not energized there should be absolutely no power to the starter what so ever. The question is how and why power is still reaching the starter all bull **** artist comments aside.
^^^^^ Is it that starter hasn’t/can not disengaged from flywheel because starter became a generator and is keeping GM solenoid energized? Op did say starter stay’s engaged vs actually spinning engine over.
I don't believe that is possible. It has to have power to it to spin the engine. It may well be stuck with the drive engaged and spinning and making a huge racket if the engine is running. I've seen that with a broken return spring If memory serves right the same thing happened on my 51 Merc when I was 16 and the return spring broke. Had to call my grandfather to come with his 48 Chev flatbed and tow me home that time. A trip to the parts house to get a new Bendix and I was broke but running.
Ok, I did find this last night. The inset on this diagram specifically states not to use a jump wire on the permanent magnet starter. So I suppose I’ll need to rewire this setup running both heavy cables on one side of the Ford solenoid and a 10 ga to the starter solenoid post from the other side of the Ford solenoid. Seems weird to me, but I’m no electrical engineer.
Do you need the Ford Solenoid with that starter? I don't hear of the hot soak problems with the permanent magnet starters. I guess you have to try it, but if you energize the S on the starter before the main terminal gets power (I know we are talking fraction of a second here) how will it act? Could you use a jumper that had a diode in it so it could not feed back? Or if you have to use the Ford solenoid, use another small relay powered off the opposite side of the Ford solenoid so that when the Ford solenoid energized, it would power the relay. When the relay was hot it powered the "S" on the starter? That way the starter is guaranteed to have power before the starter "S" is powered.
Well, I was grasping for straws before I installed the Ford solenoid. The thing just would not spin the starter without a booster / charger connected to it. Click, click, cuss, cuss. I tried everything - new battery, checked & installed more grounds, new marine grade ignition switch, new Powermaster starter, 2 ga cables & adjusted the starter till my eyes were crossed. Nothing seemed to help, so this was my last resort before I did something drastic (yank the 383 / auto and go back with the Jimmy 270 / 3 speed!). I like the diode idea on the jump wire. I thought I'd try the setup on the diagram I posted using the 20 ga wire from the Ford solenoid to the starter. first, just because I don't have a diode or any extra relays laying around. Where do you get a diode like that, anyway?
Follow the diagram you posted, they know what they are talking about. When I changed from the old style Ford starter to the new style permanent magnet style, I made the same mistake and it would run on like you describe. Found that diagram, wired it like that, no more run on. Has something to do with that jumper wire keeping current on the solenoid all the time.
Did you try troubleshooting it? I had a similar situation on my 55 chevy years ago. I measured the voltage where the purple wire connects to the starter, it was quite a bit lower than 12v, apparently due to voltage drop in that circuit from the ignition switch, through the neutral safety switch, and to the starter. Instead of using the typical unnecessary large Ford relay on the battery connection, I added a small Bosch type relay to the purple wire, and the problem went away.
I did, and this voltage drop was the issue. I figured the Ford relay would be a good spot to use to connect a remote starter switch for maintenance / timing. Knock out 2 birds with one stone. The Ford relay is pretty ugly, but this isn't a show truck. I just want the thing to be reliable. I've owned this truck since '84. It went from primary transportation to weekend drag racer / backup transportation. Then it became demoted to barn queen / sparrow target. I want to promote it to backup transportation again!
Try replacing the Ford relay with a little relay, which only switches the purple wire, not the battery cable. See if it fixes the problem.
I had a similar situation when I went to the later GM Mini starter on my car. I had the regular 3510s starter on it and it finally was going out and I already had it hotwired with the Ford solenoid. When I replace the starter with the GM Mini starter it did the same thing you described and ran on. Basically the fix is the mini starter doesn't like the Ford starter solenoid relay setup. I removed that and replace the cable with the proper gauge to the starter and everything is beautiful hope this helps
Not true per Op's post #13 with this attachment. (Note smaller image in the square). Seems there is "some" truth(?) to my theory #11 reply.
Problem solved! Used the last diagram. Both heavy cables on one side, starter solenoid on the other. Best it’s ever worked! Now to address the bad fuel pump…
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