Reading through Gumpa's post of his english wheel build, I got to thinkin' about how to actually use one. Being as I've never had the opportunity to see one in action, I thought I'd post my ***umptions, and ask if they were correct. Just by looking at the mechanism, I ***ume that one inserts a flat panel between the wheels, and manually rolls it back and forth. Depending on the size of the lower wheel, and the pressure from the upper, one gets a curvature worked into the panel. The smaller the lower wheel, the tighter the curve. By rotating the panel around the lower/upper contact point, one can obtain a compound curve in that same flat panel, thus fabricating a fender or body patch panel from easily obtained sheet. It seems to me though, that as the curve is worked into the center of the panel, the outer perimeter will "fight" the change in shape. I am ***uming that the worked area is getting thinned and stretched in order to get the curvature, while the unworked areas haven't had that treatment. Am I correct, or WAayyy out in left field? Thanks.....Roger
Yepp thats about it, then just lotsa practice and keep your fingers out! Easy to have use for, hard to get real good at is my experiance!
I know I'm probably splitting hairs here, but it's the curvature of the lower wheel combined with the amount of pressure that determines how aggresive the stretch is, not the size. The real ***** is learning to get the wheels to track properly so that the stretch or curve comes out evenly or at least in the areas that you meant it to. Alvin3a has it right about metalmeet.com, I know quite a few of those guys and they can do some unreal ****. Check out Gene Olson's pictures particularly if you are in to the artsy stuff.
I built mine for two purposes. first is to leval out the dings in the hood of the Dodge, Lots of tiny dents. Second is to for the patch panels I need. After spending time with John Kelly and using his for just a short time I figured out exactly why I had a use for one. I have a sand bag and some mallets that I made years ago and with them and the Wheel I will be able to make the smooth patches I want for the Rockers and Gas Filler areas with no problems. Gumpa
Hey, Jus' a couple of points on the lower wheels (anvils) on an English wheel.... A highly crowned lower wheel dosn't create more crown by virtue of its shape, it provides clearance and a smaller contact area ( that's the area being stretched between the upper and lower anvils) , its this smaller area that's doing the shaping. Most people wanna think of the anvils as they think of swaging/beading dies in a beader, and thats not whats really going on. A beading die is compressing and stretching the metal, an anvil is a stretching without the compression a die would create into the metal. It's little wonder that the learning curve on an english wheel is a long one, after all an apprentice labored for seven years under a master, before he was considered a master himself. S****ey Devils C.C.
Some of you guys may have heard of this guy. www.lazze.us I took his cl*** last fall and learned tons. At the end of the three days I had made a cowl panel and quarter panel for a '34 Ford a****st other various parts. Expensive, but worth it if you're into metal fabrication. Chris
********************************************************** OK....so the amount of shape is actually a by-product of what's taking place between the wheels. The more concentrated the area of stretching, the more curvature one can induce. Hmmmmm....does this also mean that one has to be careful of how often you go over a given spot on the panel? I would think that too often will thin the panel out too much. That could be controlled by wheel width, though, couldn't it? The wider or flatter the wheel, the less influence the pressure has on the panel. Crankshaft Sid wrote; "then just lotsa practice and keep your fingers out!" ******************************************************** HA! I would imagine so! Get a digit caught in that, and it would probably make you pee yourself. Roger
There are several different philosophies on metal shaping, using an English wheel. If you watch John Glover’s video’s he’ll show you how to shape using different wheeling patterns. I think that this is the way that Lazze teaches his cl***es. Other guys will use a shot bag and mallet (hammer) to put shape (lumps) into the panel. They will create tucks, shrink the tucks, and then use the wheel to planish or smooth the panel. Which way is right, just depends on your perspective. Any of you guys that live in the Midwest, there will be a MetalMeet get together in Oblong Illinois in October. These events, will give you an opportunity learn a lot in just a couple of days. The cost is just a fraction of what it would cost to go to any of the cl***es that are available. The last couple of years there has been between 150 and 200 people from all over the United States.
Not just from the U.S. either - Canada, the Netherlands, U.K. too. So far, this information is pretty much right on! I built my own wheel after attending MetalMeet 04 and using a good one. Running over the same spot again and again? Well, yes, it will often thin the metal quite a bit, especially with high pressures applied. A really stiff english wheel will actually allow you to set the distance between the wheels a bit less than the metal thickness and you'll feel that it's easier to move the panel through the wheels once all of the metal is stretched the same amount. It's actually a bit hard to explain. As an example, I can set my wheels at the thickness of the metal and remove any lumps from the panel - with no appreciable stretch. Some of the more flexible e-wheels (like the little tubular one from Eastwood) don't cotton to that sort of accuracy - well, they might, but it'll take a ton of p***es over the lumps to get them flattened out the same. That's not to say the flexible ones don't work for their intended purpose, but they tend to roll over lumps more, requiring higher pressure to impart the same effect on the metal. Hope this is somewhat understandable. Tim D.
Tim, I tried to provide a summary of a couple of ways to shape with an English wheel. To add a little more to the confusion, some like to use full radius lower anvils and others will use lower anvils with a flat on them. So what I'm saying is there are many ways to shape metal with an English wheel.
Got to agree, there is more than one way to skin that cat! It seems everyone who spends some time with a wheel, comes up with their own favorite tricks and their own favorite setup. I won't say any info on how to use an English wheel is exactly right, since there are so many variables! All of the techniques you read about in books and on the web and learn from instructors and friends at an event like MetalMeet well, they generally work. Some techniques will work better for one person than another, but, in the end, they all move metal. Most of the techniques require getting a feel for what is happening, and what might happen next. The best advice I have for someone interested in the english wheel is too seek out someone who will let you spend a bit of time with one! Using the wheel isn't that difficult. Reading what the wheel will do to the metal, and what the metal needs done to it ................ those are the toughies! Tim D.
Roger , If your free on November 11-12, I am having the Missour Rebel MetalMeet #3 in Sedalia, Mo.. There will be english wheels, plannishing hammers, a pullmax, louver punch, plus other tools for you to use. And the best part it is FREE!!!! for more info go here . http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5819
Hey Keith! Don't know about Roger, but I'm hoping to make it to your place this year . Have to see how work goes and how much vacation time I have left, etc., etc. Tim D.
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