Anyone have a 1940 Olds that they have installed a aluminum radiator in. What brand do you recommend? Having a hard time finding one for a Olds. Has anyone used ECP, Engineer Cooling Products? Thanks for any help.
I have a 41 Chevy with a Champion and it works fine. Was in the car when I got it and I've been using it for 5 years without problem. It requires a couple of spacers to align with the support so I'm not sure if this is a model specific rad (if it was why are the spacers not welded on?) or generic. But generally, if it is big enough, but not too big and has outlets in roughly the right places, anything can be made to fit. Easy to say when you're able to weld aluminum! Chris
No, it doesn't work like that. When a new post is added the thread to which it is posted to comes to the top of the list. The hamb is such a popular, fast moving place that threads can drop down the list very quickly. Id suggest most folks have to look down several pages of threads in order to keep upto date. Heaven knows how occasional visitors might manage. I guess they can't. Chris
As @lothiandon1940 explained, no need to open new threads for the same question. If you want your thread to stay near the top, just reply in your own thread to move it back up. Most folks just reply BTT (back to the top) to move it. You can only do it so often, so read the guidelines. I have replied a couple of times with suggestions in your first thread.
I had a '38 Olds I installed a SBC in. It was suggested that I have the original rad modified so I took the original to a rad shop, had them do their thing which included changing the inlet/outlet to work with my engine. I installed the rad on a Thursday, at home, the day before I was to leave for an event in another city ... the altered stock rad leaked IMMEDIATELY. The leak was between the core and the top tank. Guess the idiots didn't bother to pressure test it before handing it back to me but they DID bother to extend their hand for payment. In order to make it to the event, I slathered the leak with epoxy (there as no time to return the rad) and was on my way. The epoxy held long enough to get me through the weekend (although it did seep coolant). I made such a mess with the epoxy and was disgusted with the supposedly VERY reputable shops work on the original rad, that I pulled the original rad and took it to BeCool (at that time they had a custom shop in London Ontario ... 2 hours from me) to have an aluminum rad custom made using the original as a guide. Once the custom rad was done, I got the brutally expensive custom rad home and ... IT DIDN'T FIT (even after supplying them with the original to use as a template/guide). I had to remove the rad cradle then bust out the grinder and welder and proceed to make it fit. Once in, all went well until roughly three years later it, the custom rad, started to leak (I had used distilled water and a sacrificial anode). I nursed the leaking rad with rad sealer then sold the car a year or two later. The work on the original rad was well over $200, two hours total road time to have the work done and I didn't get a day of driving out of it without my having to mess it up with epoxy. The custom rad (this was all roughly 15 years ago) was over $1200, eight hours total road time to drop off the original then pick up the new rad, and it leaked in three years. If I had to do it again, I would order a common "universal" aluminum rad off the internet, have it delivered to my house, and do what it takes to make it fit and then consider the item disposable (meaning "buy cheap and throw it out if it fails"). Good luck to you
I had a 40 chevy that i put a cheap chinese ebay alum. radiator in---as cheap as i could find. Thing worked super, never had a heat prob. even with a/c (S. Tx in the summer) and was in the car when i sold it. I think all the 40's GM's are close to the same design so i suggest you take the msmts. and try to match it as close as you can. Height was impt. on mine.
On my '39 Chev coupe I looked around at all the options, and discovered most were crazy priced when it wasn't for a common vehicle with lots of demand. Since my coupe isn't a restoration I figured maybe a common cheaper '32 Ford radiator might fit. I got measurements for what they called a "32 Ford Hi Boy" radiator, and checked them against my car. It looked like an easy fit, and the new aluminum radiator had universal mounting brackets, so it had two horizontal tabs at the base, two vertical tabs per side, and a cowl rod bracket at the top center. Plenty of variations to choose from. And set up for a SBC that I am using. I bought it for 1/3rd of what a '39 Chevy aluminum radiator cost, and it's been fantastic. My car never runs over 180 degrees where my stat is set at.
I shall attempt an explanation once again. 1938 Olds (bought as a running/driving original). I swapped in a SBC. It was suggested that I should/could reuse the original rad after having modifications done to it to allow it to mate to a SBC and to allow it to be used with a 13lb (or whatever it was) rad cap. After getting the rad back from the shop, the rad leaked IMMEDIATELY. I was not interested in missing the three-day event I had already paid for and there was no time to return the rad for repairs so I slathered on some epoxy at the source of the leak ... where the core met the top tank. The epoxy made a huge mess (well, I guess I made the huge mess with epoxy). Once back from the show, I decided that rather than continue on with more nonsense with the original rad, I would cut my loses and get a custom rad made ... not buy an aftermarket rad but have a custom rad made specifically for my application. Still with me? Ok ... so I contact BeCool for a custom rad and they say the place that does their custom work is in London Ontario Canada ... 2 hours drive for me (one direction). I take my original rad to London (again, to be used as a template for the creation of the custom rad) then return home (4 hours total drive time). I am contacted when the new rad is ready and ... once again, drive 2 hours each direction to pick up the new rad. Total drive time is 8 hours ... two hours each way and I've been there twice now. I get the rad home, go to install it (using the rubber bushed mounts they supplied so the aluminum rad isn't exposed to too much road vibration) and ... the rad will NOT fit. The core itself is too thick and is not leaving me any room for my cooling fan. I now have to alter the front metal of the car to allow the rad to sit farther forward in order to give me the clearance I need for a cooling fan. I also had to grind off the brackets they had installed and have them welded in a different location (by a local shop). Not only did I install the rad with the rubber mounts, I also used distilled water and a rad cap that had a sacrificial anode dangling from it with the expectation being that this will help extend the life of the rad. Ok ... so we now have a functioning car again after wasting time and money having work done to the original rad then spending a LOT of money on a custom rad that didn't fit correctly without modifying the car. I drove to London Ontario Canada twice for the new rad ... two hours each way equals 8 hours total drive time. Once to drop off the original rad, once to pick up the new rad. Regardless of the fact that I installed the new aluminum rad on rubber mounts, used distilled water AND a sacrificial anode, the new rad leaked within three years .... WAY before I believe it should have. When it started leaking, I tossed in a bunch of rad sealer to stop the leak. When it started to leak again (over time) I tossed in more rad sealer. I tired of the car and sold it. My suggestion to the original poster is this ... If I was to do this again, I would NOT attempt to make my original rad work. I would NOT pay top dollar for a custom rad because I myself, based on my own experience, was NOT happy with the fit of the custom rad or its longevity. If I were to do it again, I would order an off-the-shelf CHEAP rad off the internet (have it delivered right to my house so I am not wasting hours and hours of time driving), finding one that I could make fit with the least amount of work (meaning I wouldn't buy a 40" wide cross-flow rad to fit in a 24" space, I would look for a rad with top and bottom tanks that I could make fit). When the new, cheap rad craps out, you simply order another identical one. The fact that I had to modify my car for the rad to fit is not the issue, the issue is I paid top dollar for a custom rad so it would be a bolt-in and it wasn't. EDIT: The post above mine perfectly describes what I would do now ... no original rad with mods and no custom stuff ... just find a cheap rad that fits, have it delivered to your house and make it work. As stated above, a cheap, aluminum, universal "32 Ford" rad was made to fit and worked perfectly.
I gotta toss this one right back at ya bud ... you added a question mark to your sentence so you aren't stating that "none of this makes any sense" you are asking a question. Allow me to answer with "Yes, as a matter of fact it does make sense". If either of my two posts above continue to be confusing to you ... I am sorry, there is nothing more I can say on the subject. READERS DIGEST VERSION: Don't modify stock original Don't pay big bucks for a custom unit that doesn't fit and fails prematurely DO buy a readily available eBay "cheapie" and make it fit, you will be many dollars ahead (and keep the part number on file in the event that you need to replace in a few years).
It makes no sense that someone would accept crappy work ,then spoil it so it couldn't be fixed without seeking recourse . It makes no sense that someone would ( again) accept poor workmanship / I'll fitting parts & not seek recourse . As for the cheapie radiator , its a coin toss , you must have felt lucky .
Ahhhh, that's what your issue is ... I had the original rad refurbed/altered by an allegedly reputable rad shop that also caters to the antique crowd. I installed it on a Thursday. It leaked immediately. I was intending to leave for a weekend event the next day. Entry to that event had already been paid. I had two choices ... take the rad back out, return it to the shop and have them (HOPEFULLY) fix it right this time and miss the event, or ... splotch on some epoxy I had on hand and be able to attend the event. I chose the second. It seems you would have chosen the first and that's fine. To be honest, the first application of epoxy was not messy, it was the subsequent applications (as leaks appeared during the course of the weekend) that really messed it up. I was NOT interested in giving this shop a second chance ... they had one job to do, in THEIR FIELD OF EXPERTISE and ... they failed miserably. I had no interest in seeing how many trips it would take for them to get it right. This ain't baseball where they get three strikes before being "out" ... I had a terrible steak at a restaurant near me ... I didn't complain, I didn't send it back to the kitchen, I just never returned to the restaurant. Some people see the glass as half full, some as half empty ...me? I wonder what's in the glass in the first place that makes people care so much about the volume in said glass. As for the second rad, the truly custom made one ... it was truly a thing of beauty with terrific looking welds (I even hurt their feelings when I suggested I was going to hide their wonderful work behind flat black paint). They "copied" the original rad that I had supplied (to the best of their ability) BUT, they did NOT have my car on site so they had no idea that their thicker core would be an issue. I can't fault them for that. My never having had a custom rad made before, I had no idea their core was thicker. I also don't believe custom crafted items are generally returnable and, I don't know what they could have done to fix the issue ... their core is simply physically thicker than the original. As for the rad leaking after three years ... do I want to start driving back and forth 2 hours each way while I argue with them about life expectancy of their rad or do I just get on with my life after tossing in a can of sealer? I tossed in the sealer and when it started leaking again, I tossed in another can. By taking this route, I was able to enjoy the rest of my ownership with the car. I didn't "tire of the car" because of the leak, I tired of it because I was driving it daily (spring, summer, fall) towing a small boat to-and-from the cottage, trailering loads to the dump, picking up rolls of sod in the trunk etc. I originally built it with an auto trans, then swapped in a NWC T5 with the S10 tail, got tired of "rowing the gears" all day and swapped it back to the auto etc etc. As much as I liked to think driving an old car truly on a daily basis (which is exactly what I did) would be constant fun, it just wasn't as enjoyable as a car that handles much better, rides better, is more comfortable, has less wind noise at speed, has a better heater/defroster, wipers that don't work off vacuum, better mileage, better lighting etc. It was fun for several years but ... I did tire of it. FYI, I am not driving a Prius now, my present daily is 41 years old, carbed, RWD and doesn't have a/c. If I was to do it all over again, (specifically referring to the rad issues) after having experienced what I went through, I would buy a cheapie off eBay that is "close enough to make fit" after having it delivered right to my house.
Hey, btl; Just curious, not hammering on you... In my experiences, old radiators that I've had a couple of different shops alter, reminded me(&/or verified when asked) that they didn't take well to much pressure. As in maybe ~ 3psi on a 32 Stude radiator for my Olds pwrd 32 5w, ~7psi on my 48 ford pu, etc. The older the rad, the less psi could be used comfortably/reliably. On some of them, I just went atmospheric. Kinda no different that just old OEM stuff... I may have missed this in your comments. What psi did you use on the modded Olds? Or did it leak w/o pressure? Sounds like the shop didn't reseal the tank edges. Obviously they didn't do a proper post-test. Also, I've found that at least I feel better when I refuse to patronize a place due to shoddy/shitty/poor/I-don't-give-a-damn-service, when I inform the owner why I won't be back, + let him know I'll be happy to share my experience w/my friends. & anybody else... . Hey, I owe it to him to get his name/shop name correct, n help spread the "word"... . Works the other way, too. Marcus...
NRG ... my father in-law has three antique vehicles. He has a stock Model A Tudor he has had since 1959. He restored it himself. He is also a member of the local Model A club. He also has a '38 Plymouth coupe he restored himself and has a "hot rodded" '47 Ford P-up he built too. He is a retired mechanic. He had his original 47 truck rad altered from flathead compatible to SBC pressure system by this same shop and has had no problems. This shop was recommended to him by his contacts in the old-car world. Based on my father in-laws personal experience, he recommended them to me. My rad was supposedly set up to use a regular GM cap rated at somewhere around 15-16 lbs. I do realize these rads were not designed with such pressures when installed in an original application but I fully expected this shop to refuse the work if they thought it was not capable of handling what I was asking of it. I do remember them saying they were going to have the "old guy" work on it when he gets in. If I recall correctly, the "old guy" was the original owner of the shop and his son took over. It sounded to me like the "old guy" came in to putter with the vintage stuff. My guess is the job wasn't completely finished and they called me to pick it up, not realizing the "old guy" wasn't done puttering with my rad. I get that I could have taken it back, I get that many feel I should have taken it back, but I was so disgusted in how quickly it leaked, I just went with the epoxy and enjoyed my weekend. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose ... did you happen to notice my user name? It is also the name I was given at birth
I had a similar experience when a local shop built a rad for me. The "old guy" that did the work retired weeks after and my rad started leaking after 2 months. Turns out he used a 17 lb cap(not good for flat-sided tanks) on the premise of having to cool an engine over 400 cubes. The owner of the shop also owned the other rad shop in town and since merged the two. I was given assurances that "We'll make it right" after which they charged another $400 to repair it. While this shop claims to cater to the hobby, they are more interested in lucrative industrial and big truck work and the level of automotive service has gone downhill. Most everyone in this region now has rad work done by Don's Radiators in Lethbridge, AB (300 miles from me) He's a Hot Rod guy and gets it. Sound like the OP is in ontario or somewhere out east, so not much help
I've got an EPC Speed cooling radiator for my 48. It is a solid and pretty heavy beast. The Tig welding could be a little prettier but I've been thinking about painting it black so it doesn't look out of place in the truck.
Jeezuz H Christmas, doesn't anyone solder any more? Brass rad, some brass sheet, hose outlets, tin it, solder it, pressure test, install. Or, are your auto part stores so secure they won't let you go back and pick thru hoses to get a fit? Unless you stab your distributor in at TDC and leave it there with no advance the car will likely run cool. Old radiators are typically oversized anyways. Or maybe I'm just a dick, I dunno...
Hey, btl; Thanks for the info, as I said, genuinely curious w/o malice. I've noticed that all the "older" shops that used to do rad/htr core fix/refurb are gone - at least the ones I knew & patronized(that did decent work - others that did poor work are looong gone ). Even a-near ancient-one that had a young guy owner, that could & would repair if possible or recore if needed, has gone out of business, afaik. Hoping he only moved, as he was in mpls in an older industrial area, & pollution-folks despise rad repair shops, esp ones that boil-out rad/htr cores & can/will rodd-em out if the cores are decent enough. Guy did gas tanks, too. Having read articles by Jim Babb on that kinda repair, w/o a proper cleaning tank & the ability to even heat up a large area prior to spot heating/soldering, I'm hesitant to try it. Don't wish to destroy a decent rad. & do have a couple of the old farm-torches for general large area heating, & torches to weld with & can solder, but that's usually a lot of area to cover. . So I'm not that good... & from what I've read n been told, honeycomb radiators need spl care using a literal thin layer(kike ~1" thick) of melted lead to "solder" the whole face at once. Yes, I've seen - & own - the spot/glob"fix"jobs but they're not good under the best of circumstances... Hey, Highlander; Not calling you out, asking nicely... Do you do this kind of repair in your shop? If so, would you mind all that much doing a good how-to, w/the tips n tricks needed for a successful repair; the next time it comes around at your shop? Reg *&* hoineycomb, Please? & *Thank-you*! Marcus...
If one rolls in, sure. I don't mind at all. A cpl things to touch on... Honeycomb radiators are a special breed and have little if any use to us. Good thing, we had one recored and it was almost $7,000. Seven thousand. There's maybe 1 place in the US and 2 or 3 in Europe that do em. That's it. Each segment is heavily tinned and stacked and if I got the story straight they get pressure clamped and soldered in an industrial oven. Chemical boiling hasn't been done since the 90s. Replaced by ultrasound which is actually superior and non-invasive. No more rodding out needed in most cases. Soldering tips, do not high speed clean copper or brass with a steel wire brush. It will deposit minute burnt carbon steel in the area and prevent tinning, will not allow the acids to etch the brass/copper clean. The rest is like body solder, don't get greedy, watch your heat, make it pretty, blah blah blah. But again, yeah I'll "tech" it if we get one in.
Re: Honeycomb radiator, in the early 2000’s I was told 2500. I could easily see 7K now. That particular radiator makes a heavy wall hanger. I’ll have to look at it close, but think the upper and lower tanks are either steel or casted. Whichever they are they have rust
Hey, Highlander; Thanks. I learned something today. "New" tech for old stuff... . I was/am only familiar w/the old methodologies, & therefore don't have the equipment. The last guy I used, ~ 1yr ago, still did chemical boil-outs. I also have ~4 honeycomb rads. & a handful of std-types. Looks like something that is fixable/doable at home now? I'll be happy when you can post a how-to-for-home-garage-guy. . Soldering tip???: Only ones I saw were the large copper chunks heated red-hot to transfer heat; like the old plumbers used to use. Guess I was only around some very old or backward places n equipment. & they were always intensely filthy places. Radiators were clean after fixing... . What is used these days? Years ago some of the shop owners would show me, but never to the level of teaching/training. Mostly 'cause I got along w/them... Honeycomb rad building process is interesting, but all hand work. & cleaning them out near impossible, + they(did) tend to dislike much pressure. IDK, maybe the ultrasonics are the answer. Is there something small enough & "inexpensive" enough for a home-shop to use that actually works well? Only ones I've seen are for jewelry of maybe small carbs. Always looking to learn. . Marcus...
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