Technical New purchased hydraulic lifters bad ?

This is the second time I've used Comp cam and lifters, First and last. Rounded off the cam in 100 miles after break-in. Went back to a Crane and no problems.

 

If it has worked out well for you that's great. I just know that parts failure has become a big problem in the industry the last 5 to 10 years. And I know it is not the fault of the builders. If you have never done it, yes things can go wrong. But breaking in a cam is not rocket science, especially on a street build. I will stick to buying top shelf parts from people like Isky. If I am wasting my money, oh well I am a car guy. I am used to it. Larry

 

Yet I have used many comp cams, including the one I broke in last year.

 

As far as pictures of failures I trust most people, friends I deal with. I guess the issue I have with a part failure lift ,cam or wahtever the labor involved in tearing the motor down and he worst making sure there isn't metal in the engine . For me I will not be comfortable unless I tear the motor ( completly )down

 

For the CORRECT info on cam/lifter problem, and reliable suppliers, go to Don Terrill's Speed Talk site! Select engine talk, go down to "lifter manufactures and who are they" Pay ATTENTION to what "cam king" says, and you will learn something. Majority of these guys are pros in the business. Break-in oil and tons of zinc are not going to save junk. Summit cams and cheapies are a crap shoot. Check your cams and lifters with machinist square and micrometer for .003" taper, under face of lifter with square and bright light for convex curve, it's visible. Still won't account for material quality. Use moroso moly paste. EOS is not what it was 20 years ago. Our hobby/ business will have to rely on smaller, quality manufacturers, pay the price or gamble with white box junk.

 

Cam and lifter issues are getting way more common. In the last year I got a big name brand sbc roller cam that had the indexing pin only sticking out about a 1/16" the other day I got a different big name sbc roller cam with the pin hanging out 3/4 " fully bottomed in the cam....Like you could even install the F ing cover Double check everything! I only use Johnson Hi lift or NOS lifters anymore, in flat tappet installations.

 

Could you show an example of a machinist square on a cam? Are you using it as a straight edge?

 

Mic the lobes, place square across face of lifter, hold up to bright light, you can see the convex curve, use the narrow edge, a thin scale(ruler) doesn't rest against surface accurately. A machinist square work's best.

 

Ok, I was trying to visualize putting a square on the cam lobes, I guess with a small enough one you could fit it between lobes on the side. Lifter I understood.

 

I have been lucky over the years or had some decent FT cams in the last 5 or 7 years. My next one is a big block Chevy and I'll go roller on that. in 2014, the price of a roller set up for my SBC made my mind up for the FT cam.

 

Crane is owned by Comp Cams, same stuff, different box.

 

That is good to know.

 

And that's the problem in a nutshell so many of the companies we had grown to trust for their quality and workman ship have been bought up by investment groups and the only thing that remains of their products are the name, so who knows where or how any of this stuff is made. It's getting to a point that you have to research what companies you want to do business with, make your own decisions and hope for the best. For now, I will stick with Isky and obviously pay a lot more and hopefully not be disappointed. They are still family owned and built in the US. Larry

 

It is not only bad lifters but also how the cam was ground.

Watch this -

 

Where are these $175 Comp Cam kits? The last Comp Cam kit I bought 12 years ago cost me way more than that from Summit. And Summit Racing's prices today for a cam/lifter kit only are $300.

 

No, unless your roller cam is one of the higher lift or extreme performance versions. And if you're building your engine, and going for that level of performance you'll need higher lift springs, and all the same changes if the flat tappet cam is a big cam also.
Not sure I've ever built an engine up, and not addressed the heads also? Your example of what kind of snowball effect guys go through when doing a cam swap or engine build is a bit silly. It can happen regardless of what camshaft style you chose.

 

I bought a set of crower "cam saver" hydraulic lifters. One of those had a1/4" long grove in the face of the lifter. Called Crower, they wanted to see it before they would replace it. So I called summit, they just sent me a new one. I'm done with old motors, going to use a 5.0 ford with factory rollers.l will put some 351 Cleveland headsonand a Edelbrock boss302 intake.

 

Off shore lifters, not hardened. I collect up old used lifters and have the resurfaced. Best for piece of mind in that within a few minutes you can start wiping a cam with all that garbage going through the engine. Oregon Cams did mine.

 

Some don’t have the budget for a roller cam and for those that want a flat tappet I don’t think it is wrong to expect quality parts to come from an established manufacturer. The smallest Howard’s roller I saw (I think that may have been your $750 example) states “springs required”. If that’s true then I see it as an added expense and that’s where the snowball effect comes in. In your estimation anyone putting a cam in is doing a full rebuild but I find that doubtful, plenty of engines only have a cam and aftermarket intake added all the time.

 

Bought a replacement lifter from a parts house for an early MOPAR BB, when it came in it was an empty shell....

 

Competition Products , Elgin cam kit . NOT a fan of Comp anything

 

It really boils down to a QC issue. Everything is likely inspected via SPC and a few dud lifters get mixed in lots that go out the door. I'd be interested in seeing a lifter box, if it has a lot and or date code on them.

 

No, you're the one who took it beyond just a cam swap when you stated that people often decide to do head work while they're doing a cam. I simply said that once someone decides to do more than a simple cam swap they're likely planning a bigger build, and shouldn't scrimp on the engine build by chancing what seems to be inferior flat tappet cams sold in recent years.
I personally am not made of money, so if I'm doing engine work I'm not going to cut corners, or do things that might result in whatever money I spent being wasted, and having to do it allover again. $750, vs. $300 isn't going to make me chance losing a cam lobe, and screwing up my entire engine for $450. And not all roller camshafts require new valve springs. If a flat tappet cam requires them, then so will a roller cam. If both have equal lift that's not too radical, then neither will need ne springs. But I always have my springs checked when I've got heads off, as it's cheap insurance to know they're up to standards.
It's not wrong to expect parts to be great. But the reality is what it is; many new parts are questionable these days, and since there's plenty of history of failing flat tappets lately, I'll fork over the extra money.

 

I like the fortune cookies they put in the white boxes ...

BTW - COMP absorbed CRANE and now COMP is part of EDELBROCK.

 

I recently purchased the Summit 1103 Flat-Tappet for a worn out 305 I'm temporarily using until I finish the Nailhead. I've installed many flat-tappets and always use the same procedure, BUT after breaking in this cam; I now have a dead intake lobe on Cylinder 5.

 

Well, if you have any troubles getting another, remind them there is a precedent already set for replacements. Just say's Larry's friend and good to go.

 

Ever open the box only to find the camshaft broken?
Yea! It's time for... Materials Engineering and Manufacturing!
Cams are manufactured through two different processes of different material types- Machined and Cast (also known as extruded).
A machined cam starts with a piece of billet steel and machined on a lathe. These camshafts typically have a carbon content below 2%.
A cast camshaft is just that- it's a molten steel cast in a mold with a carbon content above 2.1% and after final deburring it is heat treated to increase the hardness.
The lifters use the same process as the camshaft it is being manufactured for so that neither part becomes "sacrificial" meaning one is harder than the other, so the softer material is worn down by the harder material.
At least that's the way cams are made in Utopia (not the town).
In the real-life world of imported manufacturing- the material's make-up, overall quality control, and even the machinist on the factory floor fluctuates between not so okay and okay.
Material costs are up, and we all know about overseas manufacturing, so unless you go to one of the "reputable" cam companies; you aren't really going to know what you'll get.

To be absolutely safe, have your camshaft dimensions laser charted to ensure it is dimensionally correct to within the allowable tolerances, then hardness tested, and finally NDE (UT or Eddy current) examined. If it passes all that, you can take it and get all the mating surfaces TBC (Thermal Barrier Coated) with an oiling ceramic or a proprietary mixture of graphite, Teflon, and molybdenum.

After all this and the money you spent, you could have gone to Summit and bought an engine with a warranty, but even that's a shot in the dark.

Parts are a crapshoot today.
"Like a box of chocolates!"

Parts are expensive. My dad once told me that when he street raced, they raced for tires and brakes!
Be Safe!
Brother ED.

 

Thanks, but I know Mike.
I Like It!
Brother ED.

 

some of us are limited to flat tappet cams by the rules package we run with-2 cams,two tear downs,zero laps before 3rd one lived

 

So true.
Now everything is either owned by Edelbrock or Holley.
If you don't know which Tech Line, you have a 50-50 chance of getting the right one!