Technical 1952 Ford F1 not driving straight - front AXLE

what you mention is kind of what I fell, the back moving a bit, then correct on the front, my wheel does not return to center after a turn, but after reading all the replies, I need to go over a few things and get them sorted, like tires, grease, toe in or out ( i did my best with a measuring tape) ,caster, etc etc... I'm gonna check all, I know i have everything new under, and its tight, and greased, adjusted the toe as best I could, but will check all others

 

As usual you get some good advice and a lot of ******** artsts.
Without driving the truck myself it is hard to actully understand your total issue.
First it isn't a T bucket, Model A or 32 that you plan to run down the road at 80 mph, it is a truck that you want to have drive straight on the big roads but be able to turn a corner without having inflamed chest muscles in town. You do not need or want 8 degrees caster.

Second you do not "bend" an axle for caster adjustment, on a leaf spring truck you add a "CASTER SHIM" meaning you check the caster and decide how many degrees you want to change it and buy shims with that degree of wedge and install them in the correct orientation.

You can get a ballpark caster angle with an angle finder placed on the axle or spindle but should have it checked with an actual caster/camber gauge. Positive caster means that the top of the axle is leaning back behind the bottom.




The factory called for between 1-1/2 and 2 degrees just as they did on every I beam Ford axle rig ever built. The general consensus with the F-1 brigade over on FTE = Ford Truck Enthusiast board is 4 degrees positive caster. 1950 F1 Alignment specs - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com) with not more than six.
Camber and king pin inclinaton should have been set by the shop that dropped the axle and if you had Sids do it that was no doubt done. If you had some local dude drop it all bets are off. Camber on an I beam axle that is on the rig is set by setting the rig up on the front end rack and with chains, hooks and jack placed right bending the axle to correct camber. You go to the shop that does commercial trucks for that normally. Most of these newer fancy electronic front end racks aren't designed to adjust the camber on an I beam axle. Still unless the axle wasn't done right when it was dropped and unless you hit a curb or big pot hole you shouldn't have to adjust camber. It ususally takes a rim bending wack to knock and axle off.

Toe in = 1/16 to 3/16 is what the book says with most guys going with 1/8.
That you can check at home with a tape measure and a pencil.
Jack the front tires off the garage floor a bit and hold the tip of a pencil to the center of the tread and slowly spin the tire to draw a straight line around the center of the tread. Do the same on the other tire. with the wheels straight ahead set the truck down and then do the John Lamb bounce on the front end at time or two to settle it out. have your helper hold the end of the tape to the line at the back side of the tire at a point where the tape will be straight across to where you measure on the other side. write that down. measure the front the same way and figure out the difference. The back side should be 1/8 more than the front side. Adjust if needed. I've done a lot of front ends that way when I was doing alignments in a shop that didn't have a lot of fancy equipment, just a rack and a Snap On caster/camber gauge. My friend who was noted as the best go to alignement man in this area for 40+ years did every rig he worked on that way. My 48 would run straight on the freeway east of Boise for over a mile hands off the wheel after he set it up.

A sloppy steering box is going to be as bad or worse than loose tie rod ends. If you are sitting there in the garage and can move the wheel several degrees before you feel it start to turn the tires you have a problem that has to be fixed.

I beam axles and too wide of tires or too wide of wheels don't get along well but your truck looks like you are ok there. Over the past 50 years I have shown more than one guy that his deep reverse wheels were a big part of the issue with how his I beam rig drove..

If the truck tends to drift to one side it is usually a front end issue, if it pulls to one side it is more often a tire issue. You don't see it much now but it used to be a big issue in the early 70's when they first started selling a lot of radials.

I've had guys in the past tell me that their ride didn't drive straight because they were trying to center the wheel as they drove down the road and if they drove hands off the rig drove straight but the wheel was a bit off center. I even had to take my OT car back to a shop to have the wheel centered after I had them align it a few years ago. The didn't test drive it and the wheel was off center.

Make sure that you let us know what you figured out.

That is too nice of a truck to just have a tiny picture posted of it.

 

There is a lot of mis-interpretation of your issues.[probably a communication /description issue]
And for us to help, we need to understand what it is actually doing.

Lack of + caster doesn't make the car dart all over the place. Lack of + caster will make the steering feel very light, and you generally need to physically unwind the steering wheel when exiting a corner.
Old cars had very little + caster because they didn't have power steering [55-57 Chevy's only had +1° ] and some "Yank Tanks" like the Olds Toronado had -2.5° caster

Now adding 4° shims will not hurt the handling at all [even if this turns out not to be the problem] so it is not a waste of $$$.

If your truck feels very twitchy unstable while driving in a straight line [feeling unstable like standing up in a dinghy] it is usually an allignment issue or rear roll over-steer.
Too much Toe-Out makes the front end unstable .The tyre with the most "load" will steer away, transferring load to the opposite side [oscillating back and forth]
Understand Too much Toe-Out can still be zero toe or slight Toe-in!!!! This is totally dependent on how much camber the front end has.v
Positive Camber needs Toe-in and Negative Camber needs Toe-out to correct "Camber Thrust"
Camber Thrust is best described as 2 cone shaped wheel driving towards/apart from each other.

Too much + wheel offset /scrub radius can make this ^^^ situation worse

If your truck darts side to side when going over bumps [always the same direction initially] then you could have a mechanical bump steer problem.
This is usually caused by lowering the vehicle ,but bending the steering arm can usually correct this.

The steering can also be a total clusterf**k caused by steering box swaps etc.
Side steer steering boxes behind the axle with a drag-link going forward Need the leaf spring shackles at the front [otherwise the drag-link and the leaf spring move in opposite arcs causing mechanical bump steer]

Give us a better description of what it is actually doing AND when it is doing it. Then we can help

 

Ok I will try a few things to get it better and check, and will go into more detail if the issue continues, thank you sso much for your detailed answer

 

Thank you so much for your detailed answer, I have to go thru the whole front end, even though everything is new, its simply not working well, I know I have quite a few issues and I need to iron all of them to get this truck going straight. The box is sloppy even though its new and after reading this is an issue with the box I went with, its from CPP the 400 to be specific, its power steering, but its not tight, I tried to tighten the adjuster and did help a bit, but I have a mountain of things that can be wrong, I will try to go over all of them, and then will take it to an alignment shop if I cannot make it work, I mean it should be pretty straight forward, but the truck is so low that a number of things could be affecting the driveability

Thank again for all your input

 

Am I reading this correctly? You're now disclosing that its got power steering?

Chris

 

I just saw this thread and realized that you're having the same issues I had with my truck. In the course of going through everything on the front end (that was all-new or rebuilt), I found that my new 400-series CPP power steering box was the culprit. I had previously informed CPP of steering box "slop" after I had installed the box and they directed me to go ahead and use the adjuster screw in an attempt to correct the slop (the only reason I had not done this on my own is that it automatically voids their warranty). To make a long-story short, the set screw adjustment did nothing. I ultimately found that I could push and pull on the tie rod and get tire movement without the steering wheel moving. The box had been built incorrectly and not apparently tested. The 2nd issue is that CPP would not stand behind their faulty product due to the adjuster screw being turned (even though it was at their guidance). I did ultimately get a replacement box at a reduced price.

In the course of checking everything on my front end, I also checked rearend alignment with the front and found the rearend was skewed (angled) a few degrees. I added an adjustable thrust alignment plate and pulled the rearend into correct alignment with the frontend. https://www.spcalignment.com The steering box however was the main cause of my problems.

 

I have a feeling this is gonna be my biggest issue because the box is sloppy, I can turn my steering wheel a few inches and have no movement in my wheels, I already tried the adjustment screw and like you with very minimal results, and just like you, I also found my rear end a bit off, but I think the biggest issue right now is gonna be my box, Damn CPP I got mine years ago when I started my build, so I don't even have warranty.... it really ****s to buy something new to find it faulty

 

Yes, just like you and many builders, I had a bunch of other things in progress on my pickup at the same time which caused the steering issue to drag out before I found the true cause. I was just past the warranty period and of course that is what CPP focused on. I also forgot to mention that they sold me a pitman arm for my Dodge that was designed for a Chevy, all in the kit of parts for my Dodge. So, their (2 or 3) screw-ups were of no value to me in reaching a corrective action. They pointed at the warranty period which of course had no bearing on these issues since it was **** from the get-go. Some businesses are successful in spite of themselves.

 

Might I suggest a return to the factory F1 steering box. It's not only for F1s but it's the box of thousands of hot rods.

It sounds like the biggest issue is a fruit salad of after market parts/modifications.

 

That's why I quoted previously "The steering can also be a total clusterf**k caused by steering box swaps etc" [post #33]
That is why I'm a fan of the dreaded off-topic electric power steering column from a Prius......shhhhhhh!

People get out of their depth with geometry [or **** quality parts] etc.
With EPS you leave the geometry etc untouched so the average DIYer isn't too far out of their depth.

It should be accepted here because of the health issues and aging demographics of members.
I did a EPS swap for an elderly friend whose arthritis was so bad that I also needed to convert the car to keyless start as well.
This might not be HAMB friendly mod, but at least he can enjoy his old car while he still can.