348/409: Why don't you see them

HOLY fucking motherlode!!!!!!!!!!! I love shit like this. great pictures

 

You'll be seeing a 348 in my 1930 Ford RPU.

They a beautiful engines.

Cost is relative to cool.

-Jason

 

i wanted to put one (409) in my 64 Vette, but couldn't find a reasonable core. I hate buying a piece here and there.

 

A pic I took at a show:



I'm a bit surprised too that they don't show up more often in hot rod engine bays, they look so good!

 

what about that sprite at the hamb drags with the w motor?

 

Usefull info from the net ....

The 348 engine was first introduced in October of 1957.

The 348 was originally scheduled to be used only in Chevrolet trucks. More cubic inches were needed in the passenger cars so the 348 was used there as well.

In the first year, two versions were available; the 4-barrel 250hp and the 280hp equipped with 3-2 barrel carburetor's. Late in 58, another version was released, this time being the 315hp 348.

The additional horsepower was achieved by using a high lift cam and solid lifters. It also was equipped with the 3-2 barrel carb setup.

The 250hp, and the 280hp were available with powerglide or turboglide transmission, however the 315hp 348 was only available with the 3-speed transmission.

The 4-speed was available for the 59 models. The 305hp version was introduced and was nothing more than the 315hp with a 4-barrel instead of the 3-2 barrels.

Available for 1959 were the, 250hp, 280hp, 305hp, 315hp, 320hp and a 335hp 348's.

The higher horsepower engines were equipped with dual point distributors, improved head's and 2 1/2"exhaust. The carter AFB was also introduced and used on the 320hp.
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Late in 1961 the 409 engine was released. Because of it's late arrival, production numbers were low in the first year.

The total production figures for 409's in '61 was only 142! Making them very rare today.

This also marked the first year of the SS. There was a total of 453 Supersports made in 1961.

The 1961 SS 409 could be considered the father of the muscle car for Chevy.

Other auto makers like, Pontiac, Buick, Plymouth, were all coming out with bigger engines. Chevrolet needed the 409 to keep up at the drag strips.

There was only one version of the 409 in 1961. It was the 360hp. It was equipped with solid lifters, high lift cam, and a 4-barrel Carter AFB carburetor.

In 1962, a 380hp could be had. More importantly the 409hp 409 with 2 4-barrel Carter AFB's was now available. This is the one that the Beach boys were singing about in '62.

1963 saw 3 new horsepower 409's. The 340hp, 400hp, and the 425hp. The 340hp had hydraulic lifters, and both the 400 and 425hp came with solid lifters, and special cam. This was the first year chrome was used on the 409's.

The 400hp 409 came with a single 4-barrel Carter AFB carburetor, and the 425hp 409 with 2 4-barrel Carter AFB's.

These same three engines were available for 1964 however it would be the last year for the 425hp version.

In 1965 the 340hp and the 400hp 409's were the only sizes available. Sales dwindled down to 2,828 in 1965 due to the 409 option ending around February of 1965. This was the last year for the 409. It was replaced by the 396.

 

Here is mine also ........

 

the problem with the 409s are its like a tatoo if you have 1 you have to have more and these 409 guys are hording them all,,,,,,

 

We have used a 348 in a display chassis we have hauled around the U.S. for the last 3 years. It has always gotten a thumbs up reaction from the spectators, although you would be surprised how many don't know what it is. Making it's last appearamce at Kalamazoo this coming weekend. Then it is going in front of a Brookville roadster body.

 

I think no one should run them. They are ugly. They make little power for the money put out. Also... if you have any of this junk... please PM me and we can talk about you selling it to me real cheap.

I need a 409 for my 31 Chevy... badly...

 

I've got a 348 in my 29 Ford Coupe(see my avatar, no pics to post here at work). Bought it from a guy who wanted a 6 cyl in his 58 Impala Wagon. The motor was super clean. All original. I picked it up for $300!!
I eventualy picked up a factory 3x2 manifold at the swap meet.

I dig the look.....and it seems like I'm seeing these motors in Hot Rods allot these days.

Very cool pics to everyone that posted.

-Jeremy

 

I have a red 62 Impala with 409 and dual quads. I wish I could post pictures, but my only use of a computer is at work. I put this car in shows from time to time, and it seems to get alot of attention.

 

Found a pic.

 

I originally thought about one for my RPU project but was quickly discouraged by the prices I saw.

Remember - the 348s are truck motors. Even the three-deuce models weren't particularly impressive on the street (of course, for the most part, they were burdened with lugging around the very weighty late 50s Chevies). Back in the day, my best pal had a 1958 Ford with a 352 "Police Interceptor" motor (hyd. cam - factory 3-speed tranny - BTW) that regularly - and soundly - thrashed the 348s (and a few '09s too).

The 409s were just a "stopgap" effort by the factory until the "regular" BBC could be brought into production (also, they were quite pricey - even back then). Once that happened - they became moot as the "modern" big block was easily the superior motor.

A few 409s did well at the drags - but those were pretty much ones that had the benefit of being extensively gone through by the cream of the drag racing crop at the time. Many were sponsored by dealerships with lots of "back door" factory help.

Speaking of expensive, I recently saw a BARE 409 block at a local swap meet that was priced at $2K (!).

Anyways, short of stumbling onto one for free, I don't see a 348/409 ever happening for me. If you can afford one though, go for it. There's no question their "cool factor" is very high.

 

$250 swap meet special. I have about $600 total into it.

Travis

 

I paid $300 for mine and had it finished with less that 2500 into it. About the same as my SBC.

 

Probably already been said and resaid but price is a major factor.

The 409 was a monster if you could keep it cool. Actually both motors had cooling problems caused by air pockets in the heads. Its easy to remedy these days.
It was real common to see 'em at the track with a water hose stuck in 'em between rounds cooling 'em off.

But like a ford 2x4 427 who can afford one???

 

I had a 348 in my 60 Impala convert years ago and it ran fine, even with the Turboglide. They used the same engine in the trucks as the cars-no difference in deck height as with a BBC. The intake is different, but a passenger intake works fine. They can be found right, and lots have good bores. The 409's have a premium put on them because of the dual quad cars. The dual quad intakes and heads must be used together-the ports won't match the other intakes (too big). 348's and 409's were used in trucks, busses and boats as well as cars, so they are out there. They're not as easy as some engines, but they're not a bad piece to work with and they do look great.

 

I've heard this repeated to me over and over since I got my 348. What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Seriously. 350's came in trucks too. What does coming in a truck have to do with producing power? They have lots of torque? Is that a bad thing?

"My buddy had a this-and-that and it was really fast and it smoked the 348's blah blah blah 348's suck" Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me.

Just glad they haven't found a way to stick a 348/409 valvecover on a 350 and pretend it's something it's not.

 

Squab

you're right the 348 was also used in trucks. But it was not a truck engine per-say. They were used in cars as well, I've seen a lot of old impalas that were 348 cars from the factory. Same motor.

You could get the 348 as a 2bbl, a single 4 and a 3x2 motor. I don't recall ever seeing a 2x4 348 I think that was only a 409 option.

 

A local town pawnee city recently sold an old fire truck with a 409 in it for sealed bid went for $900.00 the whole truck running,i wasnt intrested so i didnt bid.

 

I just glombed a 348 w/ spare heads last week at a garage clean out in NJ .... paid pennies on the dollar$$$$

 

I bought my 348 off the board here. Had to replace one head that was cracked. I was able to get one good one out of 4. My machine shop/parts bill was a little over 4k. Right before getting the 348 I just finished a strong SBC 350 using a few more go fast parts, same machine shop, and it was a touch over 3k. I have no doubt that the 350 will out run the 348. Every one of my friends that has seen the 348 gets all stupid, you just do not get that reaction from a 350.

I have a 6x2 intake for the 348. If I go that way it will be a very expensive, great looking, not much better than average running, badass w engine.

 

I have a friend nearby with at least 10-12 blocks waiting to be built. He had the 348 equipped 31 sedan with the louvered top and satin red paint at Goodguys Nashville this year.

I think they're cool mills!

 

Right. You could only get factory 3x2's on 348's and 2x4's on the 409's. Otherwise the regular production cars and trucks had the Rochester 4-jets. I've never seen one with a single 2bbl but I would imagine they are out there for industrial purposes.

One thing many people do not realize is that they did make the 348 all the way to 1965 as a truck engine, along with the 409 truck engine. Also the major difference between the truck and car engines was that the truck engines had an extra notch in the cylinder bore to reduce the compression ratio. Cars were like 9.25:1 all the way up to 12:1 or something like that, whereas the trucks were like 8.25:1. The nice thing about truck blocks is that they make ideal blower engines right out the box (providing you beef up the bottom end). Plus the notch in the cylinder bore is said to clear up space around the exhaust valve which helps it breathe a little easier (unshrouding?).

One thing to watch for is that the 348 car block had a single notch, and the 348 truck block had TWO notches. But in the 409 the cars have a smooth bore with no notches and the truck has one. I picked up a 65 409 and saw the single notch and assumed it was a car engine but found out otherwise. Everything on it indicated it was a car engine. I was still able to sell the long block for $1500 and then sell the cast iron headers (for cars) and the oil pan for an additional $700 . I picked up the entire thing for $500...

I've also seen basically 5 types of W heads. The basic small ones are the truck heads with tiny intake valves (I think 1.86"?). The regular ones for low performance engines use 1.94" intakes are for like the 250hp and 280hp engines. The medium ones are like 2.06" were for the 305 and 315hp engines (High performance 348) and the low performance 409's (340hp) and the big ones are like the later Mark series big block engines with 2.19" intakes. The 2.19's were used in the 400hp and 425hp engines. Of course the mythical 427 W engine used taller heads and I think had bigger valves but I've never seen the inside of one (but I have seen and got to fondle a 427 that was unassembled).

Travis

 

Actually Cabs coupe used to have W motor valve covers on a 350 when it was owned by Buddy Dughi.

 

I am running a 409 in my five window deuce, high boy... Yes they are a little more than a small block, however; don't think building a 409 will break the bank.... There are a couple of shops out there who carry nothing but 348/409 parts. The major expense is finding the motor to rebuild. If you think you will pick up a 409 for the same price as a small block, well I guess you will say they are too expensive to build... $200 for a small block compare to $1,500 for a 409 if you find one in a yard, at a swap meet double that... I found the major expense was the inital purchase, if you can find you way around that obstical, you'll have a motor not everyone else has, not like a belly button motor, everyone has one.... After all, any V8 in a rod, who really cares, they are ALL kool !!!!

 

They are religious icons, and some people horde them so they are assured of a place in some future paradise.

The first "W" motor I ever saw was in a pretty dark metallic green '58 Impala, in late 1957; I was junior in high school. I was hooked, impressed, in LUST !!! It was one of the earliest tri-power 348s, hooked to a four speed; WOW !! But, I was a poor kid, and had to settle for just drooling over somebody elses good fortune. The 425 horse 409 came out in '62, and I almost had an involuntary sexual experience everytime I was around one; talk about being obsessed. Then life, and getting on with it took over, and it was all forgotten - or, at least pushed into the background, until one day in 1972, I heard of a guy who had a '62 Chevy that he had wrecked, and was parting out, and it had one of those "motors with the funny valve covers" in it. I called him, went to see, and bought for 300 bucks; all he wanted was to get rid of the bad memory - getting "t-boned" scared the crap out of him, and he was glad to be rid of anything that even came close to bringing it back to mind. I pulled the engine, sold the tranny and everything else that was salvageable; today, I think I would try to rebuild the car, but it was badly hit on the passenger side, and mashed almost to the driveshaft tunnel. Anyhow, some five years later, life and it's twists conspired to cause me to sell off all of my racing and rodding stuff, and the 409 - original 425 horse dual quad - went out the door for 5 bills, along with a few rats, and T400s, and a nice '68 Chevelle SS. I think I made about 3 Grand off of all that stuff.

Ah!! We act in haste, and repent at leisure. Today, I weep (figuratively) every time I think of that mess.

 

travis,
There were a couple of biddies in the club when i was a kid they never owned any thing but W motor Chebbies.
They showed up at my place with a 348 2bbl '59 two door post car. It was stock from the factory that way. I think they got it from their uncle or somebody that bought it new.

Funny car it was everything delete, the most plane jane Chebby I think I ever saw. No doubt an oddball, and probably worth a fortune today.