Hot Rods Gear Vendors with a 3 Speed Toploader? Anyone have it?

I have a few threads trying to get dropping my RPMs figured out and had all but dismissed the Gear Vendors options because their website wasn't very clear on whether or not they make an option for a 3 speed toploader.
The specifics: 1930 Model A, 292 Y Block, 3 speed (wide ratio) toploader.
Getting to my question...
I finally called Gear Vendors yesterday and the guy said that the same unit (the tailhousing adapter, I ***ume) for the 4 speed toploaders fits the 3 speed models. He went on to say that it needs to have a 14" tailshaft/tailhousing. I measured my tailhousing and it looks like it's 15". I found David Kee Toploaders website and none of the tailhousings he has shown look like mine or have exactly the same stamping number (c70r-7a040 b). He shows 14", 15.5" and 17".
http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/tailhousingid.htm

Does anyone know what "nominal" length my tailhousing ( C70R-7A040 B) would be- 14, 15.5 or 17?
Thanks. While expensive, this would be the simplest solution for me.

 

find the original overdrive transmission from a Pacer, you'll have a GV on a top loader 3 speed.

https://theamcforum.com/forum/t150-lay****-overdrive-jtype-separation_topic103978.html

for example.

btw is your car open driveline or closed?

 

yeah,can prob trip over them laying around..

 

I saw one a few years ago, a rambler nut had it...not sure if he still does.

 

Open driveline- going to a Dana41 with 4.27 gears…

I have never heard of that T150/Lay**** OD before. I will add this to my list. Same ratios that I have already. Thanks for that eye-opener!

Figures- the only thing Jeep ever made that was worth its s**** weight and they only made them for 3 years!

 

I have been running one behind the hemi in my roadster now for 14 flawless years. It came out of a 76 Pacer. AMC offered it as an option on 75-77 Pacets, Gremlins, and Hornets. Hard to find, but some are still out there.the last one I know of was a spare that Larry Ready of the LA Roadsters had for his 32. He owns Northridge Auto salvage in LA. Might be worth a call. He made 2 round the edge of the United States with the one in his car and kept the other as a spare just in case. But after those two successful trips, decided he didn't need a spare . Mine had Deen bulletproof. A Ford full syncro 3 speed with a Lay**** overdrive (forerunner of Gearvendors and the parts interchange). So, parts are available for the trans and overdrive, but not the adapter. Chances of breaking the adapter are slim and none.

 

Deucemac,
Any chance you can get some photos?
Car-Part shows a couple for sale not too far away but their description just says "9 bolt cover, with OD," or something and I can't even find photos of one of these online.

Looks like I would need to "grind" (as one website put it) down the input shaft tip and install a pilot bushing...what are the chances I find one of those for a Y block crank?

It would be neat to find one so close...and in good condition....and priced right...

 

Pilot bushings are readily available for the yblocks in standard sizes, but any machinist could modify/make one at reasonably cost. Shortening the input shaft is simple, I did that on my T-5. The one experience I had fittting a later model Ford trans to the Yblock involved turning down the front bearing retainer which was also simple.

Having had Gear Vendors behind autos, and a couple Lay****s behind manuals, I think they’re great. Well worth doing the legwork to track it down. Especially if it’s the same as your existing transmission.

 

The gear ratios are the same, at least on everything I've been reading today about the T150. My current setup uses the (I think) Jeep shifter located on the top of the ****** case, so there's that and the emergency brake bracket is bolted to the case...if all that lines up the same then it would be great.

 

Another shot of the AMC/Ford with a lay**** OD

 

Maybe my eyes are going bad, but I can’t find your number on his list either. I think it might be worth a phone call to him. It may be you can change the tail shaft (and probably the output shaft) and make that work. Since everything else is installed and works (especially the shifter) might be cheaper and easier.

A question for duecemac. Did the AMC’s use the Ford bellhousing bolt pattern and the front bearing retainer size? Just curious for future reference.

Edit
Just saw the picture above. Long, but pretty sweet with all synchros and o/d

 

I’m supposed to be picking one up soon.
I was told by the owner, a trans guy, the bolt pattern and input is ford.
But I haven’t measured it yet.
The trans to bell housing bolt pattern being similar not the bell to engine

 

I asked that poorly. I meant the bellhousing to transmission, and the bellhousing opening to the front bearing retainer on the transmission. Thanks.

 

Why not simply use a Toploader O/D trans [3 + 1] instead.
No solenoids or reverse lockouts are needed

 

I’ve got a regular 3speed OD as well. I’m saving for a truck. But I’m curious about the AMC setup.
Id like to use it with a stock 3 speed column for a car project.
But if I remember correctly, the guy with the AMC setup I’m tracking down said the hub was good. Hopefully I’ll find out soon.
But that’s not a hard obstacle to overcome

 

Just my opinion. I had one of those 170’s with the 3.25 1st. In place of an older o/d with 4:11 rear gears, I was shifting to 2nd in the parking lots, and I drive slow in parking lots. The .78 o/d is noticeably different than the old BW .7 on the highway.

So if Deyo is happy now, and the overdrive is .7, it’ll be a better deal with the 4:27 Dana rear.

 

I'm with Kerry, I would use the "Toploader Imposter". It will be a lot easier to fit into the ch***is, and a lot easier to find.
I hooked up mine to the column shifter for all forward gears, and used an O/D control for reverse.
Worked great.

 

Kerry and Beanscoot-
Aren’t those 3+1 imposters considered weak? I thought I read somewhere that they were very light duty- lighter than a T5. Am I mistaken?

 

they were used behind 300ish CI engines in pickups, is that strong enough, or not?

 

The 3+1 imposter we had took a ton of abuse in a f100 with an FE.
Lots or red light stupidity.
Never had an issue.
Would I pair it with slicks on a track? No

 

There was an article years ago all about them including swapping gears from a regular toploader into the aluminum case and vice versa. It was in Hot Rod I forget which issue but remember the article was ***led Top Loaded For Bear.

 

The whole thing is Ford. When I installed my transmission, I bought a Ford transmission to hemi adapter from Patrick at Wilcap. It all bolted together like it was meant to be. I used a stock Ford clutch ***embly and the pilot bearing supplied with the adapter. Nothing was AMC specific. I too used a T150 top shifter and a 36 Ford parking brake with a simple angle iron bracket. The shift lever even accepted a Model A accessory shift knob with a clock in it. The whole conversion was simple and easy. And, works perfect after 14 years on the road. All I did was power the solenoid with a lighted rocker switch, which glows red when the O/D is engaged. All you need to do is turn it off when driving off OR when backing up. Damage could occur if backing up in overdrive. Since all the side shift linkage was removed to use the top shifter, there was no way to adapt the high gear only switch used by the factory. I believe it is a 68 or 70% overdrive and the exhaust note is very different when in overdrive. Excellent system !

 

Pretty cool. Thanks.

 

Depends on which one you get. The aluminum-cased SROD version is the one that primarily generated the poor reputation, although in a light car with moderate power it should do OK. The iron-cased ones are almost as tough as the standard Ford four-speed with one caveat; the OD doesn't like moderate to heavy loads for extended periods. As the OD fourth gear is formerly 3rd gear, when in OD power is transmitted through the cluster gear and the cluster bearings/shaft will wear more than they should under those conditions. Ford knew this and recommended NOT using the OD when hauling/towing loads. You wouldn't have any issues in a lighter car like yours.

A co-worker installed one in his '65 F250 with a FE to improve fuel mileage. Did fine until he put a large camper on it, they then only lasted about year before needing a rebuild. Expensive rebuild if replacing the cluster gear... he finally pulled it out.

 

FOUND ONE!!! The one that was shown on Car-Part.com as being closer was in RI and the yard owner didn't seem to excited to go find it...the other close listing was 90 miles away in NH but I never called there because the listing didn't really have the best description...well, I found myself in the neighborhood of that one in NH today and gave them a call and they were EXTREMELY helpful. He looked it up, found it in his warehouse and was texting me photos within 10 minutes. $400 later it was mine.

Now the "easy part," I guess. What should my plan of attack be?

I think I'll probably need a new crossmember...will I need to turn down the bearing retainer? How exactly does one do that? Also not sure what needs to be done on the input shaft length and pilot bushing. I imagine once the old one is out, all I need to do is compare the diameter and length...maybe even distance to splines?

Thanks again.

 

Finally pick up mine.
Haven’t measured against my ford trans yet either

 

The 3.03 top cover full syncro trans was the only one to have a Lay**** overdrive on the back. Ford itself never used an overdrive on the full syncro 3 speed. Overdrives ewe re falling out of favor in the 60's so Ford put the old sliding gear low three speed with a Borg-Warner R-10 overdrive unit o the back for those rare occasions when an owner demanded overdrive. It just so happened that AMC was using the Ford full syncro 3 speed in the Jeeps and had them equipped with a top shift instead of the conventional side shift linkage. Since the were using the trans in the 70s on Jeeps, they decided to offer it in the Pacers, Gremlins, and Hornets from 75-77. But since Ford didn't offer an overdrive for that trans, they opted to use the available Lay**** unit for them. Excellent choice by them. All this was relayed to me by Gordon at Stick Only in the San Fernando Valley years ago. I used to buy all standard trans parts from him, and asked him what years did Ford make a full syncro 3 with an overdrive. He pointed out what I just wrote above on how the whole thing came to be at AMC. Unfortunately , Gordon retired and Stick Only is no more.. I hate when dependable people that I rely on retire! The good thing is I followed his recommendation, found such a transmission and have run it successfully in my roadster behind a hemi sick 2009 and not one problem. Tough stuff.

 

Deucemac- no need for measurements anymore- I can do that myself now!

Just need to figure out getting it in!

 

Paging Deucemac - Sent you a PM and an email in the past week. Hope all is well with you.