Projects Motor mounts too high?

Hey there,
Well I have the sbc installed with the CE motor mounts. With the engine bolted up to the trans, I went up and down on the hoist until the top flange of the mounts sat flat on the frame. I looked through the backside of the x member and the tail shaft of trans looked ok. I did notice the trans was touching rubber bumper under the firewall, but thought no biggie. I got all excited and put a couple stitch welds on the mounts to the frame. Sat the engine down on the mounts, removed the chain and wheeled the hoist away and basked in all my glory, I just swapped in this engine and trans all by myself I was so proud.
Then, I went inside the car. I grabbed the removable floorboard and set it where it goes.....it sits on the transmission and is about an inch from sitting down where it goes!!!
So my question is has anyone else had this happen on a 41-48 ford using CE mounts, or do I have them too high? This is my 41 sedan.
To summarize the question, is this part of the modification process, or again, do I have the engine sat too high? If I have to cut the mounts off and redo it's no big deal, I just don't want to be unhappy with my build.
It's my first time, go easy please lol.

 

It looks pretty normal. I take it that’s how the instructions show the front mounts are supposed to fit on the frame? or are the tabs you tack welded supposed to be inside the frame, bolted to the bottom of the top flange
You didn’t mention what transmission you are using. A 700R4 might be just enough larger to cause the transmission cover not to fit. Maybe a picture of the transmission mount?
Cool project, take your time and ask questions. Everyone on here wants to see you succeed in getting another old car back on the road.

 

I have not done this swap, but, you can't really expect the original trans cover to clear all or any of the many variations of trans shapes and sizes that may be used. The original bell housing and box was pretty small. I would assume the cover would need modification or remaking. Others who have done this will have better information.

 

Worth dropping a spirit level on the carb flange to see if its horizontal. The angle of the motor is as important as the height.

 

I can't say about a 41 Ford, but my experience with a 41 Chevy says you certainly don't want the engine too low!! Taking out the pan never occurs at a convenient moment.

So what's it looking like underneath? And is the trans tailshaft in a good place?

Oil on granite!



Chris

 

It doesn't look too high.
What transmission?
Interior pictures?
My guess, you'll end up cutting out the interfering portion of your transmission cover, so it screws down/lays flat, then add metal/build up the hump to clear.

 

Is the cover sitting on the trans BH? If the engine is located properly, I/e car is on the ground, good angle…you need to look ahead if you modify/make a tunnel so it doesn’t interfere with the gas pedal. Also don’t want it to interfere with a comfortable foot position.
Just for future reference, tack welds hold just fine for this stuff, easier to remove if you have to make a change.
It also looks like the front crossmember could be ground off a inch or so where it heads back towards the rear of the car on top of the frame.
If you had room to move the engine forward then the BH area would be lower under the floor pan and may buy you the room you need with modifying it.

 

There really isn't any "perfect" place for the engine to sit.

I like to get the angle so that it's sitting with the carb flange and transmission pan parallel to the frame (as mentioned). You can check this with a level, of course you have to set the frame level before you check the engine.

I also would expect to have to modify the floor to make the transmission fit.

I would have more of the parts in place, before welding in mounts. Where is the radiator? fan? Exhaust? These things all have to fit, and moving the engine around can help get them in. If you mount the engine without considering everything, you might be making more work for yourself in the long run

 

Fe-fi-fo-fum, can't see the damn tansmisheon.

Ford trans tunnels are notoriously small. Is this adapted to the Ford box or another trans? In the cars with cane shift the tower comes right thru the floor. Yeah, that small. More input please.

 

Might want to slip the crank damper/pulley on also. Looks like it could be close to the x member.

 

Chevy did that with the TF trucks, column shift had a flat trans cover, 4 speed granny boxes had a hump. When my dad put the bbc/th400 in it, it fit fine with the floor shift hump cover. I wanted to put a good carpet in it, wanted it flat, etc. went to the wrecking yard, picked one up. Imagine my surprise that it wouldn’t work.
But did Ford have a floor shift in a car in ‘41? I’d guess a pickup would.

 

No. Column from '40 on.

 

Newer automatics are big, period. Check the carb flange, IIRC the magic number was 3* down. If that is good, you have some fab work to do. You can buy new ones, but expect some fab with those. I see them on eBay too.
https://www.hotrodssheetmetal.com/untrtu.html

 

Cane or column, the floor tunnels are pretty svelte. Not a big hump like we all got used to. Yeah, I know no floor shift except truck, but other than the big hole for the stick ol Henry would save a buck and didn't make huge changes in areas that didn't need much. Early trans is pretty small, most autos not so much, even newer manuals are bigger than our flatty stuff.

Inquiring minds wanna know what trans.

 

your 1941 floor is made to clear your 1941 trans.
modify it to clear your modern trans.
it's that simple.

 

Just my 2 cents. Try and get the motor as high as possible. Being too low can be a pain in the back when doing any kind of maintenance. Literally.

 

As others mentioned, what trans are you using? If turbo 350 using CE mounts it should be fine, just modify the floor pan, that’s what they’re designed for. If you’re using an adapter to early Ford trans, the CE mounts may not be designed engine height wise to align with stock trans height.

 

If you put the CE front mounts and the X member kit where the directions say; the motor is in the right place and the trans cover will need to be modified to fit.

But it is good practice to have a distributer, crank pulley, water pump, fan blade, and exhaust manifolds on there just to be sure.

 

You need to assemble the car and engine components more to see what fits and what needs to move. The car will tell you where it wants the engine, listen to the car.

Here is what I have learned; these are the things I consider when setting up engine placement:
-Modifying the transmission tunnel is almost always necessary, just plan on cutting it out and making your own. Transmission tunnel fabrication isn't that difficult once you accept it and just do it. The same goes for recessing the firewall if you need to move then engine back.
-The carb flange on the intake should be close to level (a few degrees tilt is perfectly acceptable, but try to get it close to level). This also makes getting your pinion and drive shaft angles easier to set up.
-If using a mechanical fan, the radiator placement and core support will dictate where the engine goes so your fan isn't hitting the top or bottom radiator inlets. If using an electrical fan, go nuts and put that engine wherever you wish.
-The lower the engine, the lower the center of gravity and the better the car will handle and feel when driving. You also don't want the engine sitting too high or you'll have to address more firewall/transmission tunnel clearance and driveline angles. You don't want the engine sitting too low or you'll have the possibility of exposing the oil pan to road debris or speed bump damage. You can clearance (cut a recess in it and fill it in with same thickness material) the front crossmember but don't go nuts to get the engine too low. You also have a crank balancer and pulleys that need to clear the front crossmember.
-Your oil pan needs to clear steering components such as a pitman arm, drag link, center link with the suspension at full compression.
-You need to be able to install an exhaust which needs to clear the steering components.
-You need to be able to clear clutch linkages and brake pedals for under floor master cylinders if using those types of set ups.
-The engine accessories need a place to reside. mount up your Alternator/AC Compressor/Power steering pump and pulleys. You can modify the inner finder wells if necessary. There many many many different engine accessory configurations. You can get skinny-taller setups, Zipps Water pump risers for 20's-30's cars, or lower-wider setups for 40's-up cars.
-Don't forget to account for room for the oil filter (more of an issue on Ford engines) and mechanical fuel pump. You can get around these with remote oil filter kits and electric fuel pumps if necessary. I see you're using a SBC with a block-off on the fuel pump so probably not an issue for your particular build, but something to consider.
-If using a firewall mounted master cylinder, it needs to clear the valve covers of the engine.
-If using a steering column transmission shift system instead of a floor mounted shifter, the shift arm and linkage need to clear the firewall and exhaust system.
-If you plan to install A/C, you need room to mount the condenser with the radiator. You might have to move the radiator back about 1/2 inch to be able to fit a condenser depending on the core support/hood latch/grill mount of your particular vehicle. This usually isn't an issue, but good to mock it up now before it becomes a problem later.
- You can also offset the engine to the right a little to clear the exhaust around the steering/brake booster/Master cylinder.

I had to cut my motor mounts out and re-do them three different times on the 1949 F1 I built, and I'm thinking about doing it again to raise the engine up another inch to better oil pan clearance to the Steering Center link.

Hope this helps.

 

What you have is typical of almost any engine swap, and why I fabricate all my own mounts for engine and trans. There is no one size fits all, and impossible for those selling kits to keep cost down and include everything for every trans and engine combo.
If the carb base on the intake is level, then I'd rework the trans cover to clear the trans. If the intake carb base can allow for the trans to drop enough to clear the trans, then I'd simply space the trans mount down, or rework it to lower the tailshaft and get the clearance. I set my engine and trans as low as possible when I put the SBC in my '39 and the flat trans cover was 1/4" too low when I laid it over the opening. I just grabbed a piece of 20 ga. sheet metal and bent it slightly over a tire to give it some arc. Then laid it on the floor to check clearance. Once it fit I laid it over the stock trans cover and marked all the holes and drilled them in my replacement cover. Works great, and took less than 30 minutes to build.

 

FWIW, the one thing I see is that you have the mounts sitting above the frame rail. Used CE mounts on my 36 Ford/ sbc and they mounted between the top and bottom frame rails. Although that small amount should'nt make that great of difference in engine placement. ?? I used a Muncie trans so the floor wasnt an issue. EDIT... I'm an idiot, went and looked in my build book and my mounts were installed same as yours. NOTE TO SELF, LOOK AT PHOTOS BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH... Carry on, Mitch.

 

Wow lots of good info here, thanks to all! Sorry I didn't mention, it's a TH 350 transmission. The engine is definitely sitting nose up, not flat. Tonight I'll get an angle finder on it and read the degrees and report back. Modifying the cover will be easy, it's only hitting twords the top center. I will get more pics tonight as well.

 

Dirk35 touched on it, put a water pump and fan on it then radiator and support. Then set your engine in place, I've seen too many people mount engines without everything in place and then find the necessary things don't fit properly. Don't say I'm going to run an electric fan when a mechanical fan and short water pump would work out just fine. Just my 2 cents.

Pat

 

Just tack weld everything in place ,and be sure you can get at the tack welds with a grinder to cut them free if you have to later ...

 

short water pump and pulleys. Just sayin...

 

Hundreds if not thousands are running around with a hurst front mount which is the same or higher than yours . Ive got 2 , so go with it

 

Those mounts were designed to bolt in and seem to have some good instructions.

 

Hey @Dan Coburn , it seems this was touched on in one of your previous threads.........

 

Ok I got a couple more pics. Engine is at 4.5 degrees, nose up. Close enough for me. Also you can see the trans bell housing is into the original bumper under the firewall. And there's a pic of the crank snout past the front cross member, so there shouldn't be any issues there. I will remove the firewall bumper and carry on. Thanks for all the replies, I will leave well enough alone and be breaking in the cam by new years!

 

The 41 is a little different. Those dimensions weren't even close, it would have put the bell housing under the firewall. But other than that yes, I just didn't expect the engine to sit so high.