Sorry to all those who are offended by the ebay thing but I am interested in this auction. It's about 20 minutes from my house. Is this worth buying. I have never used an english wheel but I want to learn. Would this be suitable for the Roothawg School of Hard Knocks? English wheel
Why don't you just build one of those that Enjenjo and Fatcat came up with? It would be a lot cheaper...
They are OK.Certainly better than nothing. Stand not included,only one lower anvil included,quick release not included. I'd like to see the frame a little stiffer,specifically the vertical element.The frame needs to be stiff in bending and torsion.Wider wheels and a quick release would be nice. For the "buy it now price" you could get this machine,with a 4x4 frame instead of 2x4. http://www.creativebillet.com/ You could always post a question here:Metalshapers board.
Root'-I bought an 8" upper and a 3"wide [and 3"diam]- anvil from them and am gonna try to make a frame myself- I too know shit about it!
Root, I got Ron Covell's kit. And yes I use all six anvils. I agree with Unkl Ian, it needs more bracing and that stand looks awfully flimsy. The near 4 foot throat on mine I think is more than enough for the type of shaping we do. If ya beefed it up and with a little practice, youll be cranking out those T roadsters in no time! Don't get the John Glover basic wheeling video unless you are an insomniac. The man is very talented but a little dry.
Does anybody know which one of the kits is the best? there seems to be a lot of difference in the prices, how do they compare for quality? I saw a used one (made by US, not a kit ) sell for $3500.
Unkl Ian, that looks Exactly like the one I bought. the welds are amature at best. the thing deffinately needs aditional bracing (I expected that) but, when I first put it together I couldn't get the bolt through the upper wheel! the alignment was so bad I had to cut it apart and reweld it! if you have to buy from that guy buy the kit and weld it up yourself. I'll post a picture tomorrow. I swear it's the same piece. Paul
FatCat gave us a 10 minute how to on his small english wheel and I was amazed at what my dumb ass could be capable of. It was an easy and cheap fab that gave out excellent results. What more can you ask for? Now when he gets the big wheels on a frame and working I think he sould be able to pop out the back panel of any tub.
You guys with real experience with wheels (Unkl?)...do you think an Acme thread with only 5 TPI is a bit coarse? Isn't it only thousanths that you want to be able to "compress" the sheet metal, and won't a coarse thread be too difficult to dial in? Just wondering...I want to get a bigger one myself. I currently use an old RATD bench top 'el cheapo' wheel.
I've used a 1"-5 ACME screw on both English wheels I've made, because that is what I had. FREEBIE !ZIP ! NADA ! I designed it so if necessary,I can change to a different screw and nut.I wouldn't want it to be any courser,but it works fine. If you don't have a quick release,then you will want a relatively course screw,or it will take forever to change lower wheels.I think a good quick release is an excellant investment. Both machines are freestanding,and the adjusting wheel is within an inch of the floor,so you don't have to lift your foot too far.Both machines use a quick release on the lower wheel. [ QUOTE ] Isn't it only thousanths that you want to be able to "compress" the sheet metal, [/ QUOTE ] No matter what you make the frame out of,it will deflect a certain amount,so the change in the height of the lower wheel doesn't directly relate to the same change in material thickness.A finer screw wouldn't be as sensitive to small adjustments. I think people first started using big Acme screws becuse they didn't understand the actual forces required,so they chose to err on the heavy side.Then people started copying these designs blindly,rather than trying to develop something better.Now we have Newbies,many who had never used or even seen a machine before,offering them for sale.
[ QUOTE ] but, when I first put it together I couldn't get the bolt through the upper wheel! the alignment was so bad I had to cut it apart and reweld it! [/ QUOTE ] I made mine with the yoke holding the upper wheel as 3 pieces bolted together,so I didn't have to worry about forming and welding distortion. Then the yoke is bolted to the frame,so that it can easily be shimmed to get the correct alignment.The upper wheel needs to run parallel to the lower wheel. If you put a flat lower wheel in,and raise it until it almost touches the upper wheel,the gap should be parallel.(or maybe just a C-hair tighter on the outside)Kind of hard to guarantee that if everything is welded.
[ QUOTE ] do have any pictures you could post [/ QUOTE ] I just sent an e-mail to my buddy in 'Jersey asking him to send me some pics of his wheel,I'll post them as soon as I get them. The only differences between his and mine is in the frame.The quick release mechanism,the upper and lower yokes,and the adjusting screw are identical.The wheels and bearings are interchangable. No camera on this end yet,I'm going to have to get one soon.
I just stole these from his site: I think the horizontals are 4x4",the vertical is 6x8",with 2x2" diagonal braces top and bottom. Wall thickness was 3/16 or 1/4". In the 3rd pic,you can see the verticals for the upper yoke are 3/8",the verticals for the lower yoke are 1/4".The upper yoke needs to be heavier than the bottom because it is longer,the loads are the same.You don't need a 3/4" thick lower yoke like some people sell. The axles step down to 1/2" dia on the ends.The upper wheel is held in place by a pair of 10-24 Socket Head Cap Screws to make it easy to change upper wheels. The 3 arms sticking out below the lower yoke are the handles for the quick release mechanism.
in the third picture it looks like the upper wheel has a plastic tire? and I don't quite see how the axle for the upper wheel is held in place. ......... I think I will build a solid stand, add some bracing to mine and get a feel for it. then maybe build a whole new frame reusing the same wheel and anvils. I have one book now, Sheet Metal Handbook by Ron and Sue Fournier and have been watching http://www.metalshapers.org/ for tips. The whole process and what you can accomplish is very intriguing. Paul
[ QUOTE ] in the third picture it looks like the upper wheel has a plastic tire? [/ QUOTE ] That's a Urethane coated caster wheel,another freebie.Some guys use Urethane,soft rubber,or even Go Kart slicks for top wheels for some applications like doing simple bends.The other pics show the typical steel upper wheel,6" dia x 3" wide. [ QUOTE ] and I don't quite see how the axle for the upper wheel is held in place. [/ QUOTE ] The capscrews runs vertically through the axle and into the vertical plates.It only takes a couple minutes to switch back and forth when necessary.
Roothawg, Ignore the previous info, and please trust me. Go and check out the English wheel near you. If you can pick it up for the starting price of the eBay auction, then that may be your best best. But I doubt it. That wheel is a bench-top unit. If you're looking for a different, full-sized one, then the comments here about reinforcing apply. However, if you only want a bench-top unit, ignore what you've already read. You don't need extra reinforcements on a bench-top unit. The one sold by Tools Plus and the one sold by Ron Covell are the exact same. (Unfortunately, I don't know who makes it for them.) Check them out, and compare them side-by-side: http://www.toolsplus1.com/btengwh.htm http://www.covell.biz/englishwheels.htm The Covell one is $459, while the Tools Plus one is $575. There's no difference between them at all. They are the exact same, down to the smallest bolt. Purchase the one from Covell, and have the upper wheel polished. Anything you run through it will look like a mirror afterwards. As an aside, I never use the English wheel for shaping metal. I only use it for planishing and smoothing metal I've already shaped. But it's excellent for that. I hope this helps. E-mail me with any specific questions. (And in the e-mail, remind that you're Roothawg.) --Matt
I found a place near me that sells Acme threaded rod[1 inch dia] for 27.95 for a 6 ft peice.... and each acme nut is 4.95.I was suprised at that price......["Fasten-All" was their Co. name]
MSC (Manhattan Supply Company) carries Acme threaded rod and nuts. They do have a web site. Very dependable outfit. Been dealing with them for about 17-18 years. No order too small.
Heres the one I made. Except the wheels (4140) the entire unit is made from 4'x4'x1/4" stainless tube. Doesnt flex or twist at all!!. A steel tube would also work fine. I would think you could use some good steel caster wheels and it would work fine.Quick change lower wheels would be nice but not absolutly neccesary.You can make a cheap table top unit that would serve you well. I drive an old Ford to the store with no heater and still bring the Beer home---Feder
a book on english wheel construction is available on ebay. ENGLISH WHEEL BOOK it also has a link for a place to purchase the wheels later jim
A little info on the Acme threads used on these English wheels.......I used to turn out Acme threads when I was building Special machines and jigs/fixtures as a young man back in the day. If you look at an Acme thread design, it looks like a old bumper jack does..it's great for transmitting forces...transmitting motion...and holding htose forces/motion.....and is heavier in cross section than a "V" thread form...so it's not as likely to strip out. Which is why you'll see this design in milling machines, lathe lead screws, etc.--and English wheels...it's not a matter of how many TPI it has, it's the ability to hold forces that you have in place. Holding that anvil in the position you have it so you can shape that panel. English wheels are a method of stretching sheetmetal. As I remember, grinding the first cutter out of a M2 HS tool steel blank (a form cutter actually) for the Acme thread was a bear, to get it proper I sure spent a lot of time one night doing the work on a snag grinder...not only the angles have to be the same, but the height has to be proper as well. And a lot of checking on the optical comparitor. Like I said, I'm a geezer and very old school....
Newbie question..... Would a Hydraulic cylinder work for applying the pressure? This picture looks like a hydraulic cylinder/jack coould be used on the bottom for pressure/quick release. Any reason this wouldn't work?
Might be difficult to fine tune the tension... I've seen one with a scissor-type jack. See link in #26 above.
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