Hot Rods Ford Model “A” Banger with a T-5 Five Speed Transmission

The T-5 seems to work out really good making the flathead V-8’s highway friendly. How about with an “A” 4 banger? What is needed to mate it up to the A engine and torque tube? Will the “comfortable” cruising speed end up being freeway (80), or at least highway (65), speed?

 

I personally like the Mitchel O/D behind a banger. I have two of them now, makes the highway friendly and still somewhat traditional. Behind my Flat V8s I like a stock style three O/D or a Columbia.

The speed of course will depend on the power of the engine, V8s are good for 80+ but my mostly stock with High compression (6:1) heads will run 60-65 pretty easy.

 

i would like to put a t5 behind my banger and keep the torque tube, following

 

Google Miller High Speed Heads. They have the T5 to 4 banger parts.

 

There have been a few people who have succesfully put a t-5 behind a Model A and kept the torque tube setup. None of them still offers the kit.
You can get a mitchel converted Model A transmisswion that will have syncro 2 and 3 rd gears in it but you still only have a 40 hp engine. Cost is upwards of $2500,00. You might be able to cruise at 60 mph with a Mitchel OD setup on the flat and level but you will be lined up behind the big rigs going up any hills. If you have deep pockets, buy the Mitchel transmission convertion, get the OD convertion and spend$$$$ to build a Model A banger engine with a few more horsepower.
############################
Just called Miller High Speed heads per Krylon32's post,
looks like the way to go for around $2000.00 plus the price of a t-5

 

I sold a T5 from a 2WD S10 to one of my friends' fathers to put in his '30 A coupe with a conversion kit, and he was very pleased with the outcome. The engine is stock with the exception of a currently available 6:1 head and a B distributor.

 

Thanks, Gary.
http://millerhi-speedheads.com/products.html

 

There’s also the ford 3sp +OD kit that keeps the torque tube.
I’m not sure who makes it but if you search on the fordbarn it should pop up.

 

Anyone do this…drivability info would be nice!

 

I think better drivability can be expected.
Variables being how strong your engine is and maybe if it’s a lightweight roadster or a fordor with fenders.
I’ve used 16x750 rear tires on 2 As now and even though it only adds a couple mph, I think it’s worth it.
Honestly, it’s as fast as I want to go with mech brakes.
Also what OD % you use. I think there are a couple you can choose from
Rpm calculator rough guess, no OD about 55mph- w/OD about 68. Guessing 2200rpm +/-


My latest has a good engine and juice brakes, so I’m thinking about this stuff as well
So far I’m leaning towards waiting for a Mitchell to come up 2nd hand.
Seems as though about once a year one come for sale from someone who changed their mind.
For $2000 gaining about 10-15 mph seems worth it to me.
I already have a 39 trans, so I wouldn’t be gaining the benefit of syncronizers from replacing the stock trans.

If starting with a stock non synchro trans, the cheapest option that I’ve read would be the T5.
Seems like a no brainer to me if you want to keep the Flathead banger.

 

I have a 5 speed behind a hopped up A, probably 50-55 hp. It is in my aluminum bodied speedsters with 7.50 17's and 3.78 ring and pinion. When it had a stock"touring" motor 5th was almost useless. The tall tires didn't allow the mild motor to do its job. I've had the car up to a scary 90mph but I'd still like to put 4.11's in it I think it would still be fine on the freeway but more lively around town The thing you'll love is the easy shifting of the modern trans.

 

Actually this is for one of my sons. He has a stock 31 roadster, and is thinking about a flathead V8. So far he has a 49 Mercury engine with a, after cleaning and testing, junk (multi-cracked) block. The good news is the crank is the best the engine builder has seen! I’m thinking maybe a banger is a better option. Are there lots of cracked “A”/“B” banger blocks?
In out part of Wisconsin, we have lots, and I mean lots of fantastic county roads, and State highways. The county roads are mostly 40-55 MPH roads, with lots of lower MPH curves, and the State highways, 55-60 MPH, for the most part.
With most vintage/antique engines, higher rpm’s are usually not so good for longevity…especially in a lower buck, closer to stock one.
Looking for advice, pro or con for both engines…as I’m from the inexpensive/very reliable SBC generation.

 

For what its worth, I am running 7.50-16 rears with a 3.27 gear on my hot banger with stock crash box. 1st and 2nd are stellar, third is the highway gear for sure now. I've done 75 in it, has alot more than I am willing to ride it out through I think on our sucky roads here. Its favorite speed to cruise is 55-65 where everything feels real good. 70 it does a little road walking but not bad, 75 is a bit more pronounced but its due to the road crown around me always changing also and grooved roads.

For what you have road wise there, I think a hot banger would be a good fun ride for sure, the torque of the banger is fun. downdraft intake, cam, high compression head and better ignition and its dependable and fun, oh yeah dont forget to lighten the flywheel. 3.55 gear would be about right if you go with some good size tires and a this combo.

My only plans are to swap the trans out to this 34 trans I have here with a clings adapter and keep things vintage, the t5 is nice but not traditional, and I cant stomach the Mitchell in the torque tube OD units, big hunk of finned aluminum looks dumb on a fenderless car.

 

This is what is in my Model A. Previous owner fitted it. It's a Ford pickup transmission.

Even though I have it I don't drive mine at highway speed though. Going 85 in what is a relatively stock Model A doesn't interest me, in fact quite the opposite .

 

@walls + @panhead_pete...

I think this is probably the t170 conversion you are referring to. These are 3+OD typically sourced from Ford F150s. If this interests anyone, the guy you want to talk to is Gary@AAAA Transmissions in Fort Worth. I just had him prepare one for me, including conversion components (torque tube, etc). I should have it in a week or two and I hope to install it in January. (so I can't tell you how happy I am with the choice yet)

What I can say is that it was very expensive and I had to provide a core, which was surprisingly *not* easy to find.

Here is more info ==> https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/TremecT170FT.htm

BTW - The reasons I went with the t170 included...

• Synchro (Love the experience of the stock transmission, but I also want to get more drivability out of the banger I'm building, and Mitchell doesn't have synchro in 1st)
• Single Shifter (Mitchell = extra shifter)
• Relative Availability (Mitchell = 6 months or more wait)
• Cost (Not cheap, but relative parity with Mitchell)
• Easier Conversion (Some advantages over the t5)
• Stock "ish" (Ford if that matters, and retains the torque tube)

With all that said, I also strongly considered '39 or '40 transmissions as they have synchros, are much cheaper and can be adapted with relative ease. ...but no overdrive, which was the whole point of your original post, and why the t170 won out for me.

 

Bump…for more banger encouragement.

 

I put a T5 behind a 4-banger in a Model A coupe using an adapter from Vintage Metalworks that required conversion to an open drive. It was a lot of work to get everything right, but it completely transformed the drivability as the T5 has syncros which allows smooth downshifting and doesn't require double clutching like the stock 3-speed may. Not sure on the gearing, but it goes down the road very nice and 5th gear brings the revs down and enables the car to keep up with traffic on the highway, though I don't do that much as it really isn't enjoyable in Southern California. Country roads would be perfect.

I thought about doing a Flatty V8 swap, but the cost/effort versus actual improvements (horsepower increase, etc) just didn't make sense. I like the banger for its simplicity. I have a lightened flywheel, high comp head, 12v Pertronix electronic igntion, PowerGen, leakless water pump converion, and Model B carb with modified intake. It's fun around town and the T5 was a huge improvement.

If you can, keep the closed driveline as it retains the stock suspension geometry, which is something I struggled to maintain. The short story is the front mount for the rear wishbone wants to be located where the tailshaft of the trans is. Simply lowering the mount location like many conversion kits do, throws the geometry into an upset.

 

I have a S-10 T-5 behind a B that puts out 70 HP at the rear wheels. A lot of A owners whine about cutting the crossmember. I made a reinforcement piece before cutting the crossmember and then bolted the new piece in.

 

Thanks!
^^^^^
With the o.d. transmissions and the engine spinning slower because of it, is the crankcase oil splash system sufficient for the babbitt main bearings and rods?

 

The engine will only spin slower if the driver leaves it in a higher gear and lets it lug. Properly driven, there's no problem. If the revs become too low (going up a hill with a head wind for example), it's a simple matter of grabbing a lower gear and off you go.

 

Can I assume that a basically stock Model A engine can be classified as more of a lugging engine than a reviving engine?

 

Guess the SBC guys outnumber the Banger guys by quite a bit…not much Banger interest on here?

 

Bangers made maximum torque bout 1000 rpm, and maxed out before 3000. Not exactly a screamer

 

I for one appreciate this thread. I have a 32 B motor and have gathered some parts over the years. Thanks to all for the info on the T-5 conversion. Looking forward to more posts on this subject.

 

With bangers you pay a lot to not go very fast, but damn are they fun. I've got 4!!

 

You can buy at least 2 SBC crate motors for the cost of taking a banger from 36 HP to 70 HP! Ask me how I know.

 

The flathead V8 seems about the same…but with the added problem and expense of finally finding a block without cracks, or at least not terminal cracks. Can I assume the 4 bangers aren’t quite as notorious for so many cracked blocks?

 

Not anymore than a Flathead V8, they have very "driveable" characteristics and are very easy to hop-up.

Banger stuff seems to be 1/4 the price of V8 stuff when it comes to the stock items (blocks, cranks, etc.). The crazy prices people think the V8 stuff is worth hasn't seemed to trickle down to the Banger stuff thankfully.

Or spend the money building a 600hp LS and have some extra cash for high-test gas. LOL

That said I've done both and the Banger is still a lot of fun.

 

A T-5 with a torque tube can be done. It's not easy. I think it was well worth the effort.

 

So what are we looking at…how about an explanation or parts list. Thanks!