Projects Made a deal on another model a chassis today- No cure for the old car buying disease

People are buying Model A's just for the body's & ***le & selling complete ch***is for cheap. The body on this one's fate will be a rat rod. Everybody has different styles of cars they like. Not trying to offend anyone or start a argument but I personally don't care for rat rods. I'm going to be looking for a Model A body to go on this ch***is. When I start a build like this it is not cost effective to try to restore it to original because there are so many parts missing. I don't have any plans for what or how I'm going to build it. It will depend on what all parts I can come up with. Anyone else have this problem of buying stuff you don't need? lol

 

Absolutely. After getting my top two bucket list must have cars road worthy (29 Ford roadster and Shoebox woodie) my interests are now expanding towards hot rod British sports cars. I blame this thread right here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/hot-rod-sports-cars.956823/
There are worse afflictions

 

No, everything I buy I need. Kinda.

 

Old cars too old men are like girlfriends to a young man, you need as many as you can get away with....

 

Only issue is the ***le that matched the frame is on someone else's rod now.

Dave

 

So riddle me this. If they are buying it for the ***le and register it under those numbers. Now your ch***is has those SAME numbers how are you going to register yours? Using your SAME numbers?

EDIT: Rats, dwollam beat me to it.

 

Guys I hate to be the Bearer of Bad News but as they say this whole practice of taking the ***le and frame numbers (serial number, Vin etc) from one car and using it to ***le and or register another vehicle is a FIASCO WAITING TO HAPPEN.

Some of you may remember the ball of fur with some well known (and some not so well known) car builders a few years ago doing something similar but not quite the same and litigation and recriminations were flying. Cars were impounded and probably some are still involved in litigation.

Now to the problem of using a set of numbers from one vehicle and using this set of numbers on a new ch***is. All it will take is for one of these "Renumbered" vehicles to get into an accident with fatalities even worse multiple fatalities and one astute NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) inspector to easily note your nice new tube frame under your ***led 32 ford. Then the excretion will hit the windmill.

Or even worse some do gooder US Senator trying to make a name for himself "Riding our streets of these menace Hot Rods."

Now it comes down to whom is responsible for the at least violation of US ***les up to a serous CRIME.

If the frame manufacturer applies the numbers in question to his new frame there is no violation YET. He or they them must sell that frame as a 1932 Ford frame to commit a violation.

If they apply those numbers but sell the frame as a 2022 XYX frame/and or vehicle then there is no violation IF the frame meets all other standards.

Now down to YOU if YOU get a bare frame and YOU apply those numbers and attempt to get it registered as a 1932 Ford using that old other cars ***le then YOU will be committing the violation.

Either way if the above scenario come into play then the ball of wax gets rolling and frame manufacturers can and will have their sales records examined and YOU could end up with a registered letter from the USG saying bring this vehicle/frame to XYZ location for examination.

(If you think warrants etc are required and they would never do this look up the same thing happening to tuner ECU sellers and or the firearms industry where it is ALREADY happening).

Either way your precious Hot Rod MAY be at least impounded and will be the subject of litigation for YEARS to come and you will be deprived of it's use.

Sadly there is NO WAY to make these swaps work. Yea I know there are a bunch of people jumping up and down saying they have already done it successfully. Ok maybe you have BUT you have COMMITTED A CRIME and just haven't been caught YET.

The ONLY solution is to go by your state laws (which vary) and have it ***led/registered as a "New Build", "Composite Vehicle", etc whatever your state calls vehicles made from parts.

Yea I know a lot of you are going to be disappointed and or angry and say I have been doing this for 10, 20, 30 years with no problems yep you probably have but you have been committing a crime each time to do it.

One CAN NOT change, re-stamp, re***ign or deface ANY numbers applied by the state, USG or vehicles manufacturers on ANY PART bearing those numbers PERIOD.

 

Good deal here on a frame with running gear redone. The number issue is why I didn't pull the trigger. No longer need to fight every battle.

 

Good points guys. I know it is a Felony to remove, alter, or change VIN numbers or move VIN plates from one vehicle to another. I will not do that. But what if the numbers on the ch***is are no longer visible? On Model A ch***is the numbers are stamped right under the left front body mount. The side splash apron sits between the body & frame. Most of the ones I have come across the frame number is no longer visible due to rust or prior frame repair. I have taken frames to the Texas DMV & they have the Vehicle Theft Task Force inspect the frame for numbers. This costs $40. They take acid & steel wool & try to pull the numbers out. Sometimes it works & sometimes it doesn't. It's a gamble. If they can get the frame number visible & the ***le is in use then the frame cannot be ***led but if the VIN number is not in use or reported stolen, has no liens & is clear then I can use it. If the acid steel wool process doesn't work then I have to purchase a new VIN number from the state & restamp the frame myself. New VIN numbers cost $2.50. Then I go through the bonded ***le process & I will have a 100% legal ch***is ***led whatever year I choose from 1928-1931. Now I'm not 100% sure that I'm buying this ch***is to use for that purpose. The main reason I'm buying this one is because it has a good set of fenders & running boards. I need those for the 31 Model A coupe that I'm currently building. My current fenders have seen better days. Also it has a possibly a good banger engine or a good engine core. It is also comes with the hood & radiator. It is a complete ch***is with all the running gear still intact. Plus it has been converted to juice brakes. More than likely I will strip it down to a bare frame & put it outside. Once it's out in the elements for a few years & Mother nature removes the frame numbers I don't think she or I will be held accountable. If that's the case then there should be a lot of people arrested for letting old cars sit outside & rust. That's all I'm going to say about that. As the ol saying goes "There is more than one way to skin a cat".

 

Let me rattle off a experience & a lesson learned the hard way getting a bonded ***le once. I bought a trailer from my 80 year old neighbor that is a farmer. It was a flatbed trailer he used for hauling hay. He owned it for 10 years or so & stopped using it because he no longer needed it. He put it up for sale & i bought it. He told me who he got it from & I know person too so the trailer was not stolen. He could not find the ***le to it. The person he bought it from never put it in his name. So I registered it has a homemade trailer. I hauled a ol rusted heap down to the DMV to get a bonded ***le process to get a ***le. The Texas Theft Task force automatically runs the license plate numbers of all vehicles they come it contact with. When they ran the plate on the trailer & it came up as a homemade they got su****ious. They told me I was being detained for possible trailer theft. The trailer had pinstripes is what got their attention. I was questioned of where I got it & had to call my neighbor so they could talk to him. The Theft Task Force found a partial VIN on the trailer tongue. Someone had put a new hitch on the trailer before I got it & part of the VIN was welded over. They said they were going too impound the trailer & arrest me. I then called the previous owner of the trailer & explained the situation. He remembered having the new hitch installed at a welding shop. He talked to the Task force Theft officer. After about a hour of the trying to figure out the missing VIN numbers they allowed me to apply for a bonded ***le for the trailer & let me go. The whole ordeal cost me $800 to get the trailer legally ***led after buying the bond, paying late fees for not correctly registering it. I really hope the Theft task Force feels like they accomplished something. I did not know that I couldn't get a homemade tag for a trailer that I didn't know was homemade or factory built. I did know that I did not steal the trailer & though I legally bought it.

 

Just as important as having trouble with a state agency, (and I haven't heard of this YET) would be problems with insurance pay-out in the case of an accident. As *********** as they are, and as cut-throat as their lawyers are, I can envision a scenario in which they could deny claims because of "fraud" involved in registration/***le/licensing. It can get expensive and frustrating to go through the inspection, bonding, etc. to get a new serial number ***igned, but I would rather invest a few hundred $ and have a solid legal foundation, than risk the thousands of $ invested in the final build. ***le/serial number swapping can be a real can of worms, and not worth it in my book.

 

Read my byline. It applies to the issue of serial numbers on frames, etc.

John

 

Geez you guys, lighten up a little. As soon as you pull the original engine out of a Model A, you've REMOVED the serial number. Model A bodies, and a lot of frames don't have serial/registration numbers...unless you put them there.
Model A Ford Garage ~ Model A and B Ford Engine Serial (VIN) Numbers
Every state has different DMV laws and a good hot rodder may have to learn how to (semi) legally skirt around some of them.

 

Just as it is still legal to build your own firearm, you can build your own vehicle. You just have to show where the components were sourced and more importantly, that the appropriate taxes were paid. Insurance companies reframe pick ups but the source vin of the frame is recorded. There are still ways a hoodlum hot rodder can barely be legal and get a replacement vin. Your results may vary.