I have run into this before. Do not try pulling cam gear------they break! Best that I found was to get the crank lose by taking the caps off. With it lose, you can very carefully pull the crank gear, (watch that it does not put any pressure on the cam gear) then the cam gets more lube (make sure to get some behind the cam gear) and a little tapping until it can be rotated to the retention screw location. (all tapping and any pressure should be put on the shaft, not the gear.) Once the cam is out, the gear can be pressed off by supporting the hub. Good Luck!
Broke the cam loose by finding some tubing and a socket that fit snugly in the two holes in the cam gear, used a ratchet handle as a bar ... Just took a gentle nudge to break it loose. Got the cam out with the gear intact. I don't think it is supposed to come out with the gear on it. Going to polish the cam and see if I can salvage it. All of the bores look ok ... Just need a light hone. I am gonna have a lot of questions when I go to put this back together.
Not sure about these early 4 cylinders, but the GM Stovebolt's where timed off of the flywheel. Not sure how long before they were made that they had the idea to do that....
New question: the cam retainer is cracked through one of the screw holes. The gear will have to be removed to replace the retainer. The gear I have looks new except it appears that someone beat it into place with a hammer. The end of the cam is not threaded. Any thoughts on threading the end of the cam so that the gear could be pulled into place after the cam is installed, just a thought. Seems like a poor design as the holes in the gear don't really line up with the cam retainer screws very well. Also the literature I have says the lifters are convex so they turn. This engine looks like flat tappets and lobes, any thoughts?
I haven't put a cam gear on one of these but for the later Chevy inlines you freeze the cam & heat the gear. If you work fast the gear almost slides on.
Tappets are usually only a few thousandths convex, so they appear flat at first glance. Put the base of one against the side of another and look for light at the sides.
What Six Ball said. Put the gear on before putting cam in engine because you have to set the clearance on retainer quickly! How bad is the crack? 26's and back only had one screw on the retainer. (You have an after market gear You may be able to Dremel out the holes a little.)
Cracked through one screw hole, see picture. Gear is new, one of the lobes has some pits but I think it will run. I am thinking about cleaning everything up, check ring gaps, piston and bearing clearances, put it together and see how it runs, then decide what to do to it next.
You may want to put it back together with an Allen head screw and use a Bondus type ball head Allen wrench. (in fact, I should do that too. I've just been using a magnetized screwdriver. If you drop the second one behind there, you have to take the first one back out to get to the dropped one.) Your gear has much more meat on the hub than factory. Good Plan!
I know absolutely nothing about these engines but I am having a great time watching. Thanks for posting.
I'm with Norm! Pretty interesting reading about the peculiarities of almost one hundred year old engines.
Without going through the whole thread again I can't remember if the video of Bob Ruffi talking about his Chevy 4 that did 140 +. If it is not here I'll find it & post it.
Six Ball I do not remember seeing that interview, so, I would say that it is not here. Myself, I would like to see it! Mac I think that you could, but if I tried it with the gear on, I'd get a lump of solder on the counter sink that with his gear you cannot get a counter sink in there to clean it up. I finally got back into the shop yesterday to start correcting my cam dislocation. Hopefully will have a new back plate in a few days. Still need to press the old gear off and do the heat and freeze trick to get the metal one back on.
If you use a Dremel to V the crack, you should be able to solder it- just wrap the cam to protect it.
OK, I was wrong. The video shows Bob Giovanine not Bob Rufi. It was posted by Jimmy B. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/bob-giovanine-talks-1925-chev-4-bangers.490226/
I like the suggestions on the screws and silver soldering the crack, I may try that. As to the gear, I noticed the thick hub and wondered if it was a 6 cylinder gear? It seems to have the correct pitch and meshes correctly with the crank gear. Another question is the way the oil pump is set up. The center main has a direct feed from the pump, which I like. The front and rear have pipes run to them but I don't think they are pressure tight. I don't see how one could easily run with oil pressure on the front and rear mains. With the front and rear caps being partially outside the pan, I would think oil would be leaking pretty bad. If someone has pressurized the mains and doesn't have that problem, please share along with necessary changes.
Dan I know that 216 and up sixes will not fit. I have not had access to any of the early sixes. I do have several aftermarket fiber 4 bagger gears that are similar to yours. I got my old gear off this weekend! The material for a new keeper is on its way!
As far as sealing the front and back bearings for oil loss, Let's say reduce the oil loss. New engines had a felt ring that was forced over the lip on the front timing cover and ran on the machined area of the crank pully. It was captured between there and the crank timing gear. For pressure people did like your engine has been done. They put a return from the bottom of the timing cover back down to the pan. For the rear main, new engine had the babbitt grooved I think with three groves toward the back with a hole in the bottom babbitt which went into a channel in the bearing cap which channeled it back into the pan. For pressure, a lot added a ring (with width, hollow inside???) between the crank flange and the rear main with a pipe back to the pan. Rich did that with my engine. I have not looked into this to see how it is constructed. (Hanging off the engine stand by this end)
I will continue with the rear main seal. If you are real serious about a seal, do something like the Stergin-Geovane rebuild. Add a piece to the block with seal grove. The pic shows a B crank with the built in slinger. For the Chevy crank ??? And build a new rear main cap with built in return. Modify pan. OR SOMETHING SIMILAIR! All of these pictures are already on this thread with some stories. Like Six Ball said. There is a whole lot of information in this thread!
Worked on the timing cover back plate. Think that I've got it to fit. The original racing engine had a side drive for a magneto. Rich did not like the way the drive was built nor using a mag. I can understand Rich's concerns. I think one bushing, (brass??) no seal, lubed with grease cup. I like the looks of a side drive, so am going to ad one back, but not for a magneto. To get into the narrow frame everything has to be sucked in to get the engine to set as low as possible.
I could not get my cursor below the picture. (old age) Well it did it again! The width of the frame rails as seen are already two inches farther apart than suggested for the 1935 pore man's dirt track racer. SO, SUCK IT IN!!
Try it again! I think that the back plate fits the engine block pretty good now. It was a little hard working with previously used materials. Have two holes to plug. To be able to support the side drive, I used thicker plate (the boys did the same thing but forgot about moving the cam endo. I machined out a section to retain the original thickness for the cam and crank. This was done somewhat free hand... I do not recommend doing it this way unless you can rub your tommy and pat your head REAL well for an extended time. Find someone with a cad cam program and a CNC!!!!
Thanks, Six Ball! I am still waiting on material for the cam retention washer/plate, so cannot put it together to locate my side drive distance with the gears. I'll have to stay above the frame and below the exhaust, and out from the pushrod covers (that do not exist yet).
I got my brass in the mail this morning, so made the plate. I almost ruined it by stepping drill bit sizes in too big of jumps. I had forgotten how grabby brass was. Pulled it clear out of my mill vise. (Should have been using my boring bar after making a pilot hole.) Wanted to try it on for size before putting on the gear. I could not get the key out of the shaft, tried everything that I could think of. Was afraid of damaging the cam, so I just filed a "keyway assembly groove"! Pulled the screws up tight and still ha good rotation. The cam went into the freezer and the gear will be put on a light bulb in the morning. Get my feeler gauge set for .002 and be ready with the dead blow hammer.
I found some pistons on eBay last fall, and they have been in solvent all this time. I think that I can salvage four of them. They are possibly the same as what Little Skeet put in his dragster in 1959. (page ten and eleven this thread) They are out of a International truck engine BD (Black Diamond)264 6-cylinder. (IH made at least three 264 engines, this one and two 4-cylinder tractor engines) Unfortunately, they are like hens' teeth to find. International only built this engine for two years, I believe 1955 to 1956, but they did put in multiple farm machines, such as the 151 combines. There were two heads. One vertical valve, the other a canted valve. I believe these are out of a canted valve engine. Standard bore is 3 11/16 like our C4's, but what I can find out so far, is they only went to .040 over bore. I have not gotten good measurements on them yet, but I do remember that I could use the stock C4 rod length. I will put up several pictures and also a picture of what the 151 combine engine looks like from the outside.
Interesting pistons! We had one of those combines when I was a kid in Texas. My dad & uncle cut a LOT of wheat with it in the Texas Panhandle & Eastern New Mexico. But they had to drive it from job to job. Lots of stories.
Six Ball I will have to hear some of your Dad's stories! I could trade for some of my own. Like shooting the silver bridge just above Horseshoe Bend, Idaho. With 6" clearance total, doing 10 mph, hoping to get off it before a loaded logging truck hits his Jake. This was the only highway up the river! WE are having extremely cold weather with wind. Pendleton set a new record at 3 degrees F nite before last, and I am calving. Urgh, I am getting too old for this! I will not get a change to get any large hours on the shop for a little while!
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