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Projects 1940 Ford Coupe Resurrection, Tuesday Night Special, 303 Olds Taildragger

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crusty Chevy, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Got some time in on the 303, and its looking pretty good. Both in that I have been scraping and removing all the flaky old crust inside and the grit on the outside and that the parts seem to be in pretty good condition. Got the intake side looking pretty good and flipped it over. Learned a lesson there, align the stand center line on a weight center not the crank center, it went over pretty quickly as it was essentially out of balance. Going to be hard to get it back right side up, going to use the hoist to help roll it back over is the plan.

    Plastigauged the rods today and all of them were the same essentially .002 or .003 clearance which is less than the .005 factory limit for needing new bearings. I checked all the crank holes and they were all clear and free of goop. The bearings generally all looked the same, a few flaws and a little track corresponding to where the oil hole was drilled in the crank. They are really grey in color and not as polished looking as I have seen on other more modern motors I have taken apart. The journals also all looked good, no scoring, nice and smooth but again not highly polished. My back got tried of leaning over the motor so I will save the mains for next time.

    One more thing, is there an easy way to get the plugs out of the end caps of the rocker shafts? Or do you have to destroy and replace the end caps? Id' like to clean the shafts out, just to be sure. I did see rockauto has the end caps in stock.

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  2. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 4,119

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Welcome to the olds club. Here is a before and after pic of my olds in a ford project CB40B26D-BE77-4C81-B5A4-539C296C826B.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Yes, you will want to clean out the rocker shaft tubes and the stand feed hole for oil to the shaft. It is pinned to the shaft, easy to pop out and reinsert. I would also check the condition of the shafts. Often lots of wear from the rockers especially if oiling was reduced due to crude. The end caps in the shafts are easily drilled out. I used a rifle cleaning rod to clean mine. New shafts are available from Rockers Unlimited. Chances are that the oil galleys are full of crud as well. You could remove the end caps and rifle them out. While you are at it you might want to replace the freeze plugs especially the two in the rear of the block as they are not accessible unless you pull the engine from the car.
    Note of caution, behind the timing chain there is an oil galley plug that has a small hole in the face to spray oil on the chain. Do not lose this or replace it with a plug.
     
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  4. Thanks for the tips. Yes, I need new core/freeze plugs all around as there is lots of corrosion in the water passages and a few rusted out plugs. I checked the timing chain squirter and it was free and not clogged up though the chain itself shows lots of wear and slop. I have the rocker assemblies in the solvent washer soaking now. The rockers to shaft play is non-existent, actually there is a bit of drag. The shafts do not look worn but have cooked on oil on the upper surface and none on bottom where the oil holes are. I'm going to polish off the cooked on oil and see how they fit after.
     
    Thor1 likes this.
  5. Those end caps are a Dorman number 555007
    Rock auto carries them as well as other 303 parts FWIW
    And Rockers Unlimited can reface the rockers if there is a lot of face wear from the push rods.
     
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  6. My 56 324 Rocket and hydromatic that I had plans on putting in my 40 Ford but have decided to save it for another project. Prolly going to build a model A coupe or roadster high boy and put this setup in it first project to finish is the 40 Ford then the 50 Shoebox that I’m keeping a Flathead in and then the Rocket will be used. ED1C9AFD-07C3-4B4E-A22A-9AF795F1FB0E.jpeg 42885867-A943-4C9F-B2E3-CAFC8CBA538F.jpeg 621F1F7E-C45A-4A0F-B4FF-1055309FA881.jpeg B8F98225-1B65-4AC2-A696-0660B5EE280B.jpeg 69BCEE73-9537-41A1-962B-6C755110CD47.jpeg
     
  7. Been puttering along on the engine. Checked the mains and they are all good, so full speed ahead.
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    Had problems getting off the right side exhaust manifold. I had broken one bolt off years ago when I was first messing with it and it came to me with one broken off in the hole. It should have just pulled off with the nuts and other bolt off but was stuck and I did not want to break the manifold by prying so I started to drill it out and broke off the bit. I eventually got it released using a carbide burr to grind about 2" down into the manifold. I'm still struggling with the below deck one. I knew better than to try but I did and broke off an extractor in it. I'm currently carefully grinding that away but killed my bur halfway through and will be able to save the threads.
    20221210_183436.jpg

    I didn't do this but I certainly made it worse trying to use a extractor on it. I will get it when my new carbide burs arrive. 20221210_183446.jpg

    Cleaned and reinstalled the oil pump. The screen took forever to get the crust off, week of soaking and lots of wire brush scrubbing.

    20230106_110913.jpg

    Core plugs was an eyeopener. Holy cow this thing was full of chunks and loose dusty rust. A combination of scraping with rifle brushes, wire, an open giant band clamp (worked great to get around bores) , compressed air and a vacuum at the front were the water pump goes removed a literal pound or two of radiator choking debris. I still need to do the one in back of the block and the heads. I bought the full core plug kit, 27 pieces I think. Been doing a bit of wire wheel clean up on the block as well. 20230101_141226.jpg

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    Pile of water jacket debris removed using a bagless house vacuum from just one bank of cylinders.

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 6, 2023
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  8. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 17,781

    Squablow
    Member

    That's a lot of crust in those water jackets. Good that you found it now, before it really became a problem.
     
  9. One step forward, two back.

    Spend some more time on the old 303. Got the block pretty clean inside and out.
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    Got the broken off exhaust stud out. I drilled and ground my way down to just seeing the threads. I got the top two clear using a dental pick but could not pick the last of the stud out and had to resort to a tap to cut the rest of the way out. Its a little looser than the other threaded holes but will hold a fastener at proper torque.
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    I pulled all the valve springs and changed out the rock hard seals using the rope method and a cheap puller.

    20230114_124413.jpg
    Only the exhaust has a seal and it is just a tiny rubber o-ring inside the keeper. Intake with no seal 20230114_125753.jpg

    exhaust with seal. Used this time to clean up all the springs which were full of crud.
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    At this point I did a bunch of small stuff and have come to the realization that I have nearly no compression as all the rings are stuck. I tried to pour in a de-gumming solution of ATF, acetone and toluene in the plug holes and it basically all ran out onto the floor. I am going to pull the heads. I already have gaskets, just the question of what I will find other than stuck rings. New rings are cheap from Summit hopefully that is it.
     
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  10. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 1,017

    brianf31
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Progress!
     
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  11. On my first 324 I found broken skirts and rings when I opened it up. Side walls were rough but bored it to 4 for 371 pistons and it worked out well. Good luck with yours when you look inside.
     
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  12. Got the heads off, not really difficult or anything just messy. It was probably a good thing as the passages ways between the heads and block were full of more rusty flaky junk. They were so crusty that I have a few questions related to core plugs. In the photo below, post clean up, the red circled core plug was so rusted out it just came out as I was digging out the rust so I know one has to go back in there. The green circled area in the middle obviously did not have any plugs. But the yellows were so rusty and I had to poke them pretty hard to clear them that they may have had plugs that were so eaten up I could not tell either way. The head side is little help as the same spots were full of crusty rust too.

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    There is a slight ridge preventing me from pulling out the pistons easily. I cleared off the carbon and it is just enough ridge to catch a finger nail on. No major bore scratches or rust. I have a ridge reamer on the way. Once I get the slugs out I will check for taper, piston to wall clearance and decide where to go with all this new info.

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    Got the rear end ready to install. Its a 1980 Ford 8" from a Granada. All new brakes and seals from Rockauto. I had done this about a year ago, wire wheeled and painted with the factory mounts as I did not have the EC leaf springs in yet. Here it is with the original mounts.

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    Got them cut off, and the pinion angle set and tacked mew mounts in place.
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    Love the new welder, still not great at even beads due to infrequent use but way better than the old flux machine. Painted and ready to install. I have the same CE leaf springs in my 47 chevy and it rides rather stiffly with bilstein shocks, which is a good thing as it only sits about 1 3/4" off the bump stops and never bottoms out except leaving my driveway. I'm thinking of loosing one leaf on these for a softer ride and to use shorter lowering blocks.

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  13. Got this vintage ridge reamer off the bay to take care of the ridge and get the pistons out. I picked this sylye after watching a bunch of youtube videos and watching folks struggle and make bad cuts with other style tools. Its a really nice piece, hardly used, and in great condition. I tried following the printed instructions on hole #1 and think I left a little behind that needs a second go round to get.

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    It worked really well on the first time on other 7 holes when I followed the YouTube instructions from this guy. He made it look so easy that it is the reason I got this style of tool, should have just did it his way on the first hole:


    Everything out. There were indeed a few stuck rings and probably more that released upon getting them out. I will be spending some time measuring and checking clearances to make informed decisions on what to do next. I do know that all the ring lands are full of carbon but the pin to piston fit and rod bushing to pin fit are both play free and in good condition. I marked everything so I know where they go back to if they can go back and do not need replacement.

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    Laying out cleaned parts. Water pump and timing chain are new. Been keeping busy in the blast cabinet prepping some of the rusty steel and iron chassis and engine parts. Some are rattle primed and others received my favorite black rattle can which is VHT chassis and rollbar paint. Its a one part epoxy (no primer necessary) and very slow to cure but is an amazingly durable paint if you are not in a hurry to use before a week to fully cure. Some parts like the distributor just get the wire wheel to keep grit out of them. Oil filter can still needs attention, but I do have a starter crossover and remote filter setup so I am waiting to see if it will be needed before prep and paint. This motor came with a doubled up water pump pulley that was two single units stacked one in the other. I guess it must have had some accessory like air or power steering originally?

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  14. Soak those hard rubber wire separators in liquid silicone and it will revitalize them so you can reuse them. Start now, it takes a while for it to work correctly. I have saved quite a few.
    Have you checked the vacuum canister? I have never found one that works. You might get lucky though!
     
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  15. My wire separators were already cracked, I cut the plug wires and slid them out to avoid flexing what is left and I saved the bits. I have some dental silicone impression material that I am going to try and use to make a mold and cast new ones. Yes I think I did get lucky, the vacuum advance works, at least when I suck on it I can get it to move. I need to get one of those hand held vacuum things with the gauge for the tool box. It was a bit bent and I straightened it out and cleaned it up and shot with a little silver paint as it had some rust that had eaten away the coating in places.
     
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  16. I have an extra set of seperators you can have. PM me your address.
     
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  17. Got a little play time tonight. I'm feeling motivated and so far stuff is going well out in the garage. The kids are getting older and I have a bit more free time each evening so progress is coming it little spurts a few days a week now. Just enough time to pull the extra leaf and try out lowering blocks for size. I had both 2" and 3" in "inventory". With the 3" blocks and the car weight on the spring I have exactly 3" travel to the bottom of the frame without a bump stop in there yet, plenty of travel for me. This car will certainly get heavier as things move along and more stuff gets bolted on and will probably settle a bit too, I will save the small leaf and can always add it back in or switch to the 2" blocks. Its all just loose at the moment, I will tighten up the U bolts when I get out there next time.

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  18. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 4,119

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Fusick has the separators
     
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  19. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 4,119

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    https://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WH518
     
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  20. Been following along for a while but now I’m even more interested now that I will be building a somewhat similar 40 Merc taildragger. :D Thanks for posting all the details. It’s coming along nicely! :cool:
     
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  21. Time for a bit of an update. I have been doing a deep dive on piston rings and started a separate thread to come up with some answers:
    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...on-for-stock-piston-reuse-in-refresh.1286487/

    The short version is that that I cleaned up the pistons and found a $20 set of old stock rings. When measured out everything was great except the end gap was a bit large at .021 instead of the optimal .015. General consensus was rum 'em as they are and that is what I am going to do.

    Cleaned pistons with stuck rings removed
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    Fit of old rings in cylinder was .090! Here is why compression was non-existant.
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    New rings fit at around .021 give or take, much better.
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    Pistons to wall measurement within spec as well as ring groove so we are good to use the existing pistons with the new rings and a light hone which I will do when I can find my tool that I have had since I was 18, wherever it may be....
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    On a parts collecting front I was able/lucky to get a complete Cartouche upholstery kit from which the seat cover had been professionally installed on a completely restored seat frame with tracks that has hand tied springs wrapped in new burlap as original, no carved foam. It includes both door cards, the three piece area around the jump seats, jump seat covers and bottoms, kick panels, headliner, arm rest covers, matching windlace and fabric to cover the visors. This kit was originally purchased in 1996 and not used until a few years ago when the cover was installed on the frame. The rest is unused and still in the wrapping from Cartouche. The Owner sold his project car and wanted it gone after trying for over a year to sell and made me an offer I could not refuse. I really wanted a bone white interior but all this was too much of a deal to pass up. Still fits my 1952ish build style..

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    Weather has been nice so I got a few parts sprayed, little bit at a time and I will have a whole car someday.
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  22. Emotional whirl wind week. Dropped the heads off last Wednesday at our great local machine shop.
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    Got a call three days later on Friday that one of the heads was cracked, total let down. I asked them to give me a week hoping to get lucky and find one or I would come pick them up and pay the examination charge. I spent a few days wondering if a SBC was in my future and all the early Olds stuff I had spent money on was a waste. Well I think I may have actually gotten lucky. Marketplace find about 35 miles to the North of me. Guy bought a 51 Olds and was going LS, and it came with two motors. I do not have room for any more stuff in my tiny garage but I went to look and see if he would possibly part with a set of heads. Nobody else had contacted him in a month so he was open to part it out as he wanted the space in his shed back. I got two sets of heads with rockers and exhaust manifolds, the driveshaft with the hard to find slip yoke IF I dare try and go Hydromatic (not first choice), two two barrel intake manifolds that I will use as weights to hold down my harbor freight carport, Speedway gasket set for a 371 and a bucket of smalls.

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    Best part, one set of heads are number 10's:

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    So I dropped these two sets off today and await the verdict. They are going to build the #10's if the pair is good, if not they will check the #2's and hopefully at least one is usable to go with my other usable original one, or option three I go back to being depressed about putting in a SBC. I do have dibbs on the 324 motor he has that the #10's came off, its slightly stuck (will rock about 1/8" on a breaker bar), and has a Jetaway attached and the 51 Olds rear end. I really do not need another motor but its hard to pass up such stuff for future builds as it is just getting harder to find this stuff. So yes, I did get lucky!
     
  23. Good score on the tens fella!
     
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  24. No word from the machine shop yet on the heads. That is good 'cuz if they were cracked they would have called, now I wait till they are finished.

    Started back in on the body, I'm a bit tired of engine work.

    Did my first ever lower quarter patch. Worked out pretty good, I messed up a bit to the right of the door opening where the patch was not in good alignment and will need some filler but the rest looks pretty good. I'm really just now getting the hang of my new welder. I still have some issues and most of them I can attribute to working on old rusty stuff that is not clean enough. When I practice on new metal my welds are great, on the car just mediocre. I'm trying to be better on prep.

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    I added the 35-37 open car B pillar brace from EMS as the bottoms of the door pillar were gone. They were on sale 50% off when Eckler's was clearing out stock before the merger/closing of Mac's. I should have bought another set for the fronts as the A pillar needs some fixing too. I will use them as a template and fabricate something close. It will eventually get blended in. The car is way more solid now.

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    Looks decent even from the inside. I did a bit of grinding to allow for some planishing of the weld.
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    This is the other side but you get the idea of how bad the bottom of the B pillar was.
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    I spent about an hour bending hinges and adding body shims. I have never been able to do this before, I'd say that is progress.

     
  25. Not much on the actual car but another good week parts hunting. Picked up very nice wishbone, tie rods, spring and CE shocks/mounts from a '39 that was getting the dreaded MII. Its all powder coat too. I was just looking for a spring as mine was deeply pitted between the leaves, but the package deal was there for $200 and a two hour drive. I have to pull my axle from my wishbone, I see using the torch in my future as its a bit crusty and been living outdoors for a long time.

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    And on the engine news front the #10 '56 heads are done! They look really good. They had to add an insert on one exhaust stud that was broken off, very light surface cut, valve job, umbrella seals on exhaust and o-ring seals on intakes, shimmed a few springs to get correct pressures, cleaned, primed and new brass core plugs. All the valves/seats/guides were good. I need to finish up the hone and get the short block back together. Then I can make an intake choice. I have an ol396 and a bunch of 94's that all need going through and a 2 barrel '56 factory intake that will fit the heads. I have both 2 and 4 barrel factory 303 carbs. I prefer a factory '56 single 4 barrel intake but I do not have one.

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  26. That 56 intake will need the 56 valley pan with the recess to clear the heat crossover.
    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Got a bit more done. I finally found my engine tools. I bought these from an ill fated attempt at new pistons for a 67 mustang when I was 18. I had no idea what I was doing and made poor choices but I still had the tools 33 years later. Zim brand ring compressor: Made in the USA!
    20230415_075030.jpg
    Zim hone:
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    This is pretty cool. Instead of three stones it has four heads; two stones and two felt pads that hold oil and absorb grit.
    20230415_075101.jpg

    I got a decent crosshatch with it, not perfect but it felt good and rough. I have heard with cast iron rings you could get away with hand sanding with 100 grit, so this has to be better than that. Here you can see two of the block side deck core plugs back in. The lower right is for restricted flow to help keep the water in the head long enough to absorb the heat. I still need one in the lower left, it is a different size and was not included in the "complete" kit I got from Kanter. Actually the kit also did not have the two 1 1/8 plugs for the timing chain cover.

    20230408_135806.jpg

    All loaded up and ready to go. Ring instillation went so easy I forgot to take a pic. I remember that 18 year old me broke two rings trying to use a ring instillation tool (which I still have as well). I just put them in manually and had no issues.
    20230408_165358.jpg
    All 8 back in. I had some issues with the bearings popping out due to the thrust of whacking the piston top to get them down. Is there a good way to avoid this? I tried to install the bearings after the piston was in but not fully up to the crank but then I made a mess with the lube and it would get on the backside and I would have to take them out and clean them again.
    20230409_123606.jpg

    New chain old gears. I thought I had at least one new sprocket but it was for a later engine and they are not available anywhere I could find. My old chain was totally saggy, but the gears showed minimal wear so back in they go.
    20230409_123615.jpg
    That is as far as I got before the kids spring break. We took a road trip to NY for my dad's 80tth birthday and on the way back to Atlanta I made a call to Niles, OH and made a slight detour. They would not let me take any pics inside but I did shoot this:
    20230405_164454.jpg

    I met Ross and Tony Lombardi, they seemed like good guys and Tony gave me a full tour of the shop. Lots of neat engines going together there. Got to see an Ardun, early Caddillac, Olds and new and old Chevys and Fords. And the point of the visit was to acquire this. Now I have options for the intake for the #10 heads, 2bbl, 4bbl and 3x2.
    20230415_074647.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  28. Just checking on ya here...did you remember the front galley plug with the oiling hole behind the timing chain?
     
  29. I did. I had read about it enough times to take it out, clean in there (it was not sludged up at all, just liquid oil), and put it right back in. I have yet to do the one in the back as the engine stand is somewhat in the way.
     
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  30. Time for an update. I have been puttering away at all the small stuff that makes up a car and engine, and have come to realize that it is a lot of stuff.

    I got the distributor built out with a Pertronix.
    20230505_201538.jpg

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    I learned that the switch to '56 #10 heads also requires the use of lifters with different size cups than the stock '51 had. This is due to the 1.8 rockers having larger cups. Stock '51 has 1/4" push rods vs. later 3/8" rods. They are nearly the same length with the 3/8 being a hair shorter. I have to say that I do not think this modification could have been really all that common back in the day. By the time I am done parts swapping, I could have just built out the 324 from all the stuff I had to take from one to do this. I cant see somebody doing this other than like my situation where I had a bad head and these were the heads I could get from a locked up 324.
    20230425_215033.jpg

    So I found a set of old stock VL40S lifters on the bay for half the cost of new Chinesium lifters. The S denoted short, they are 1/8" total height less externally, but the plunger (and oiling hole/grove) is at stock height as the stock plunger is deeply inset. They fit fine and after getting 13 of the 16 unstuck from sitting so long they are at home in the block. They clear the lifter bores on full lift so there will be no weird wear patters from them being shorter.

    20230505_201527.jpg

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    Heads are on! Just need to deal with intake choices. I have a stock 2bbl with carb, stock 4bbl with no carb and OL396 3x2 with a pile of core carbs. After a convo with Carb King I am going with single 4bbl and hunting for the right deal on an original 54-56 carb that does not look all rusty and is priced right (hard to come by being a tight wad, I am picky but I am also patient).
    20230507_201429.jpg

    I have started on the drivers cowl. Almost all the damage is below the fender line and will not be seen so I am being creative in my repairs. First small patch mimics factory but is slightly longer to cover up some rough looking stuff.
    20230419_145439.jpg

    Next spot I cut out revealed the bad inner layer when I tried to clean it up.
    20230419_145433.jpg

    I made a template first. I have been cutting up an extra section of Bradley trunk flooring that I did not use for my patch panels.
    20230421_184155.jpg

    I made this on my HF bender, twice actually:
    20230421_184208.jpg and it fit so bad I cut it up and and did this with it.
    20230421_184228.jpg

    Its the inner structure, nobody is going to see this and I have proven I cannot make complex shapes in one piece so I winged it with no real plan and I am happy with the results. Outside skin will get butt welded to give me more practice in a non-visible area. I will tackle it next time I get a chance to get out in the garage.
    20230507_204000.jpg

    From the inside its close to how Henry built them in this area,just done with a bit of overlap and plug welds. I will finish the area that goes to the floor and lower A pillar eventually.
    20230421_201017.jpg

    Last bit, got the old axle out of the wishbone. The first pin came out relatively easy, the second had me seriously considering cutting up the bone to make it easier. I just took my time, lots of rosebud heat, a 6lb "mini" sledge, impact wrench and my air chisel running at 145PSI to get it free. Needless to say the perch bolts are trashed but the axle and bones are damage free. Now to clean the axle up and get it installed in my recently found good bones with spring/shocks. Old bones going on the someday pile.
    20230507_164708.jpg
     

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