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Technical Patch panel help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by OZCAST, Feb 28, 2023.

  1. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,291

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Fritzee
     
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  2. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 667

    NoelC
    Member

    While this is welding, it's also as complicated as asking for opinions on setting up 3x2 carbs, is it bad cams or bad installs, or maybe is there enough zinc in Rolaids to help with break in.

    What size of wire. 023,.030,.035? Think of it as a fuse that needs to burn, with that you have speed of ignition and length of time to burn.
    IMG_5248.JPG
    Think of WFS a as poking stick, more of it comes out the firmer the push. Also in the abstract, more means colder. Like adding to a boiling pot, it cools down the water when you add more or dump the noodles in the pot.
    images.jpg
    The gas or gas mixture is the equivalent to different grades of gas. Burn rate, heat release, force of explosion when the droplet leaves the end of the wire.
    Also cutting the end of the wire with each start, it helps with arc initiation where the ball ends will slide or bounce.
    Lots happens in a nano second.
    IMG_5229.JPG
    You have a good little welder. Just got to get you to understand the process to better adjust to different welding conditions. That means practice, learn, discover and more practice. IN this instance I was playing with stick out. Longer stick out restricts the arc column. Voltage widens it. In theory, how wide should the bead be if the wire is only .023 in diameter and the metal 20ga.?
    IMG_5239.JPG
    Usually when taught welding it's monkey see monkey do. My approach is more hands on learning, see what it does if you do.
    IMG_5318.JPG
    My first attempts with a silicon bronze wire. Scratch that off the bucket list. What polarity do you use? Anyone want to guess?
    In regards to wire and polarity. Most read and never ask what if I did.
    Why you might not want to, or when you should.

    That's electron theory shit is actually quite interesting and most recently, it's been changed. But contrary to popular belief, it's just in theory whether or not electrons actually flow. No biggie.

    IMG_5750.JPG

    Getting back to those two paper I originally attached, you don't need to know that stuff to weld, or to weld a pretty bead, but it helps. A lot actually. Sure, I could slow down, tweak the WFS a bit and tighten my motions, but at the time it was do it get it done take a picture for proof I could. Typical welder excuse but it it what it is.

    IMG_4050.JPG

    Penetration or fusion. You want fusion. Trust me when I say, penetration is over rated. It's like saying, look at all the rubber I left on the ground or I have a foot long wiener but a 6" bun.

    IMG_5355.JPG

    Sometimes it is the scalpel. Old dry grease, little motor won't over come the resistance, wire doesn't feed as promptly, jerks and jumps. Nano seconds but if you don't know, you could be scratching your bald head and wondering why. This was a used machine that I bought just because I knew what buddy didn't about them.

    All I got at the moment and really, the best response comes from asking a direct question and include a picture.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  3. OZCAST
    Joined: Oct 12, 2020
    Posts: 266

    OZCAST
    Member

    Thank you! I'm using .030 wire, 08 tip.
    I've been getting better results with more wire out of the gun. Seems easier to control for me, and easier to see just exactly what I'm welding.
    I got the stuff yesterday to make a winfield pipe anvil. I think I can get a better fitting patch that way, as this little piece has 3 different curve radius. I'll make a dead nuts fitting piece and try again
     
  4. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 4,801

    goldmountain

    Check out Carter's Auto Restyling.
     
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  5. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 667

    NoelC
    Member

    Just a few thoughts on welding in that patch. As mentioned, what's heated expands and when cooled contracts, but... what's heated and what stays cool affects how it contracts and is equally as important to understand.

    It's about energy and where it goes. That said, air or water removes heat, reduces material temps., but as far as shrinking goes, it's done long before you squeeze the hose or grab the pliers.

    Gap or no gap, cut it straight or at an angle...who thought it would be so complicated. How about this, see that picture of all the welds in a row, progressively changing, can you see how that could be done with voltage or WFS? Increase or decrease. and if you were to see stretch marks, where would they lead.

    How about this on for a size, try to understand what each component is doing by referencing it to what you know.
    WFS as example. You have a wall, a car and a gas pedal, squeeze the trigger. DO more penetration or do less.
    It's a gun, point where you want the bullet.
    Soft ice cream, how quick does it melt? Does it melt lol. I tried that with my cheese slice and it didn't melt it burnt.

    One thing for sure, you will learn in spite of us if you want it bad enough. Good luck.

    PS... your wire size...hard to understand but, if you want to see a conversation like the cam shaft one, terms like slope and induction and volt amp curves come up in relation to wire size.
    There is some science to the wire size, timing cycle to melt the end, that like a cam is some what forgiving yet, controversial.
    An example of that is one might think to much WFS when really it to much drag and moving to slow.

    My picture, little men, rope, fire. That's polarity looking at you.
    IMG_5592.JPG
    Well, that and surface area. So why do some wires require a plate positive, electrode negative while others plate negative, electrode positive. And if you said who's tried it the other way for shits and giggles not one will raise a hand.
    IMG_5595.JPG


    What did you think would happen eh? World come to an end, lol. It doesn't. I'm proof. Good luck trying. But having said that, posted those pictures, you did good. That's how guys get screwed over in autobody jail, and still have it look no where close to what you accomplished on your own. So yea, skim coat of filler, primer and paint it, because perfection is over rated.

    increasing-power.jpg

    increasing-power-reverse.jpg
    Tops and bottoms, one dial was turned.
     
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  6. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,291

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Use .023 wire. You can run less heat that way.
     
    anthony myrick, RMR&C and OZCAST like this.
  7. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,304

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    True, but the IMPORTANT thing here, is that after welding, the metal cools, and shrinks. You can't stop it.
    Tips, yes, 0.023 wire will produce a slightly smaller heat affected zone. So possibly less shrinkage. But it will still need to be stretched.
    Hammering a hot weld is fine with gas, maybe even TIG, but not necessary. Let the metal stabilize and do what it wants so to do, before correcting it. MIG welds, waste of time hammering it as soon as you tack, or stitch weld it. The thickness of the weld won't stretch as easily. So, grind the welds down almost to the surface of the sheet metal, hammer it, then fine finish the weld with some 80 grit on a 3 in. pad.
    If you can't get to the backside of an area to place a dolly, cut out the inner panel. Much better to try and perfect the outer skin, what you see, and have a sloppier inner panel, that you don't. And don't forget to weld the inner panel back together.
     
  8. thebronc4019
    Joined: Oct 25, 2005
    Posts: 230

    thebronc4019
    Member
    from New Jersey

    Fitzees Fabrication
     
    OZCAST and Budget36 like this.
  9. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 1,182

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    Where is @VANDENPLAS to tell them the problem is they are working on a Dodge?
     
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  10. OZCAST
    Joined: Oct 12, 2020
    Posts: 266

    OZCAST
    Member

    I was waiting for that, lol. To be fair, it's dodge in sheet metal only now.
     
  11. OZCAST
    Joined: Oct 12, 2020
    Posts: 266

    OZCAST
    Member

    Thank you!
     

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