Gentlemen, I have rust in the weld seam at the top rear of the cab on my 51 F1. The first picture will show the situation from the inside and the second will show the outside . By the way, I do not think this poor thing ever saw the inside of a garage until recently ! Rain water has laid in this seam and caused 9 rust holes, each roughly 1/8 inch across. Fortunately, the rest of the weld seam is very solid. (If it was all perforated I would have to go Cabroliet or however you spell it.) I knew from the start that getting rust out of the seam would be my challenge, and that has certainly been the case. Plan A I took one of the small sandblast units (Speed Blaster knock off) and thought I could get the seam cleaned out and get to good clean metal. I then thought I could MIG weld the whole seam closed. ( I know many of you are already thinking, Wow, just making a mess!) This resulted in terrible welds, and sure enough when I examined down in the seam closely I still had rust. Plan B I am beginning to think I may have the cab dipped at a metal cleaning facility. (American Metal Cleaning is about 1 hour away in Toledo, Ohio) This would also help with considerable rust damage I have down low on the cab. Prior to this seam issue, I was planning to have the entire truck media blasted. I do not think the media blast would get this seam away cleaned out either. I am interested in any suggestions or ideas you may have. This is going to be a daily driver and will see its fair share of rain. I definitely want to avoid any water leaks into the cab. Once dipped, I would try to MIG weld the holes closed from inside the cab. I would then have the cab e-coat dipped to make sure I cover every bit of that bare metal with good primer. If I felt that I had good adhesion of paint in the cleaned weld seam I would not feel compelled to weld the seam from the outside. (I can hear a sigh of relief from a number of you.) Lastly, If I go with the dip process, what kind of time do I have to do my various repairs before worrying about flash rust ? I think American Metal Cleaning goes with a phosphate coating, but I will get more detail from them. As always, I am interested in any suggestions.
I would blast the seam on both the inside and outside, you need to get a good angle in on the outside seam. Weld it from the inside. Epoxy prime.
I wish to add some clarification to my panel adhesive reply. First off, blasted or dipped, or ground and wire wheeled clean, you will not get rid of rust between the panels if it's there enough already that it rusted thru, or is causing a blistering around the spot weld nuggets. Welding that is a dog chasing it's tail. From the pictures you posted, and with mention, you have come no where close to showing us properly cleaned for welding. Or the application of a panel adhesive for that matter. So, with all due respect to you with a welder in hand, I mentioned panel adhesive. Why, because I've seen too many cars lately with welding related issues, I figured if it didn't stop you to think a bit, it might slow you down enough to do so. Also, while the smart money rests on another cab in better condition, don't know any better ways to spend it is the way your going. Dream big right. I mention panel adhesives to save you time and money. You just have to think, what kind of cheese you will be left with after the cleaning, and the best way to fill the holes. There will be six ways from Sunday to do that but the only one that doesn't require welding is because it would incorporate a panel adhesive. Ok, there are others but think of the mess. The clean up, the drying time. Band aid the wound. You go to the doctor what would he do, clean it of ****, sterilize it and band aid it to heal. But hey, you got the cash, be prepared to spend it cause those six ways will do it. And before long **** the fun right out of it. Good by fun, hello heart ache.
I don’t know, but wonder if you could clean it the best you can, the spray in a rust neutralizer/converter . Maybe it would seep back into the seams?
Do you really like this car, plan to keep it, and drive it for a long time? Want to be proud of the way it looks, and runs? Do things right! You'll never get the rust out of the seams, but you can carefully reduce the chances of it coming back. A phosphoric acid treatment in the seams should dissolve the rust. But you can't see what's going on, so it's easy to leave rust inside there, or if left too long, start eating away at the healthy metal. I would neutralize the acid with water, again and again, to be sure the acid is out, then jamb in some rust encapsulator. Not the best way to do this, but not as hack as other ways. Best is to cut out the metal, and replace it. With, or without the seam. Of course, this requires some tools, and decent welding skills. I've completely replaced weld seams with fabbed panels, for a smooth look. If keeping the seam, you should probably get a hold of a shrinker-stretcher, to make curves in the patches. I'd stay away from glues, and such. Not a good way to patch metal.
Dip it,,,,,,after that you will have rust free metal . Then go to work with a lead paddle,,,,,,,the lead will fill any void you have and bring all the rest back to factory appearance . Tommy
That seam was to allow and connect separately manufactured panels. If you're welding them together anyway, why not cut it out entirely, say 1/2" on either side of the seam and then bridge the gap with a new 1" wide strip of metal formed to fit and flush welded. Nothing to come back and haunt you...and way cheaper than dipping.
I agree with the cut, remove and replace thought. If that is above your skill level, see if you can find someone who is sympathetic to the cause that understands old metal and the goofy amount of work we do to save something because there's not always a better one available. I have not welded the entire top seam on the F1's but I regularly do all of the short seams. Look real close at the area above the door latch on the cab frame. They split right below the beltline a lot. It's easy to overlook if you're old and blind.
One really has NEVER-LIVED until you weld thin & RUSTY metal in the overhead position !! 6sally6 I vote for POR-15....inside and out.
I used POR-15 to take care of the rust on my 51 chevy truck belt line. Before putting two coats of POR-15 on it, I used a wire brush on my drill to get it as clean as possible. I did that at least 9 years ago, and there are no signs of rust in that treated area. The truck sits outside all year - rain, snow, and sun. After:
Clean it with acid, flush with water, dry it and braze it. Small diameter torch, like a jeweller's torch, and added benefit, the brazing "should" dry out any residual moisture.
I’ve remade the flange with a bend and 1/4 flange to weld the outer skin. You get a perfect seem and the weld is fully accessible.
Your very best option is what was suggested by @anothercarguy. That way, you end up with a smooth panel and no place for moisture to ac***ulate and cause future rust. Yes it's more work but it's the best way to address the problem. Do not use POR or some "rust converter" if you plan to keep this truck. You will be sorry, if you do.
Yep, what rockable & anothercarguy said. Cut the seam out and weld a patch piece back in. You could add a step flange to both sides to make it easier to weld, but matching that curve with a patch piece with two flanges on it would be a nightmare. I fore see a lot of hammer and dolly work, and body filler work in your future. Leading in the seam might work as well, but I would be really concerned about getting all the rust out of that seam. Even with the lead process, if you don't get all the rust out, it will be back.
Many, many thanks for all the well thought out replies. I am leaning towards the suggestion of having it dipped and then going to work with a lead paddle. What I like is that I would eliminate any place that moisture could sit. Yes, if the dip process does not get all the rust out, it will return under the lead and I will be very bummed. I may have to take that chance. I recognize that cutting the seam out and welding in new metal is probably the ultimate solution, but I would have to find someone to do that work. (By the way, despite the holes I describe, the overall seam is very strong. I always hate the thought of cutting out strong original metal.) Cleaning the inside of the cab and welding the holes closed from the inside is something I can do, and would probably work just fine, but I would worry about moisture staying in the seam, since this will be a daily driver that has to sit outside. I have never worked with panel adhesives. I am not sure how I would go about this option ? In closing, I do not have the cab off of the frame yet, and we still have plenty of snow to deal with. I still have some time to think this through. (And learn more about the dip process, and practice the art of leading.) In the meantime, thanks a ton for all the suggestions.
Daily driver.... So, not a concourse restoration. In that case, ask yourself this question....How long, realistically, does it need to last? If you are like many of us here who are retirement age, that answer would be not all that long before it is no longer your problem. It took 70 years to get it to the conditions it now. So a good cleaning and a rust treatment to get it sealed from the elements might be the ticket. If you are 30 or 40 something, then that alters the parameters some
NoelC, I was a little quick to say I am not familiar with panel adhesives. A number of years ago I had a 70s Ford truck with a nickel size rust hole at the rear of the bed where a brace comes through on each side. I did not own a welder at the time, and was not going to purchase one of two small holes. So I did use panel adhesive and it still looks great. However, I am not sure quite sure how I would use this technique in this weld seam ? Use the adhesive on small patch pieces from the inside? (Pristine surface, of course) The outside would be protected by paint. Mike, Your point is well taken. I am 67 and will be lucky to get a few years out of this truck by the time I get it finished. However, I plan to leave it to one of my nephews and will try to give them as close to a "trouble free" experience as one can get with an old truck. I am still looking into leading but would be starting with zero experience.
The metal has to be absolutely spotless for lead to stick. I think that could be the most difficult option. That's my mostly worthless opinion.
Treat, neutralize , then seam seal it up. If Oxygen and water can't get in, no more rusting. The seam sealer allows you to keep the factory looking seam.
Nobody needs to build a car or truck that lasts for 100-years, out of one that already lasted for 70-100 years. Do the math.
I'll tell you what I'd recommend. You gearing up, getting out a grinder and a wire wheel, and giving it ****. You do that, get it cleaned up, trust me when I say, I'll give you ideas on fixing it.
I’ve 10 toes and ten fingers, been working for a long time But-back to what’s been mentioned- I had a PU cab that I’m not sure what was used or done to it before I bought it, the seams in the jambs (cab was painted an off white) had “rust color” bleeding through. No clue how long it sat before I got it. I put it on a different ch***is I had and the truck lived for 15 or so years outside, 6/7 of those years in the SF Bay Area. Not coastal weather. The bleed through never really seemed to grow, etc during that time. I may have done something to it or had it done back then it I had the cab stripped and fancied up. But I didn’t.
Wrong letters for the type of pills you're thinking of.... pills for ED, yup.... pills for wanting to fix it right....nope.
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