Hi folks: This is my first post other than my introduction. I have been slowly collection parts to put together a 1929 ford roadster pickup. I have picked up many parts. but still need a lot of stuff! Lately I have been eyeing a winters quick change center section, comes with two options, the early ford v8 center kit, or the vintage bell v8 center kit. Both use the bells off a 37-48 ford differential. The vintage bell is a posi unit and the early ford being an open diff. I am going to look at a 37-48 rear end sometime next week. The guy wants $400.00 bucks for it. I would like to know how can I be sure it is a 37-48 diff and not an earlier one? Also does it matter if it is off a car or truck? Has anyone actually used this center section kit and if so how did it work out? This is my first early ford build, so I am not very familiar with a lot of early ford stuff.
Look for a 6 spline pinion. '37 & earlier are 10 spline pinion. That gets you a '38 to'48 center secton. Axel length will vary. '38-'41 shorter than '42-'48.
A complete rear end, brakes, wishbones, and driveshaft, will be easier to identify. 35 to 41 are all the same width which works best with an early Ford. 42 to 48 are wider. 35 to 38 came with mechanical brakes. 35 and 36 had the wishbones mounted a few inches in from the backing plates on the axle housing, 37 to 41 the bones mounted at the backing plates and the axles have fewer teeth on the diff end (stronger) but must have matching spider gears in the diff. If you want to use all the early rear end parts, diff., axles, etc. you could use the Spidaro style V8 center but if you choose to go with more modern posi. and late style non-taperd axles, with better bearings it would probably be easier to go with a complete Winters assembly. $400.00 is a pretty steep price unless you use most all the parts
@Mike802, I thought I had a couple of good pictures to show you the difference between the two general styles of axle trumpets. But, I can't seem to find them right now. I will take some tomorrow and post them here. Unless you really have to have the original style keyed axles the Winters Vintage Bell V8 Center kit (SR3605-31) is a much better choice. Push in axles, Wedge lock differential, and pinion nose bearing are all included. The SR3620 IS the Spadaro kit. This was a joint effort between Winters and Dick Spadaro (RIP). It lacks the straddle mount bearing and forces you to use the original V8 differential parts. If you want push in axles you have to spend more money to get the HRW conversion kit. I would be glad to supply you with a quote for a Winters and can show you how to save some money in the deal. You can contact me with a 'Conversation'. If you aren't sure how that works just let me know and I will contact you. Welcome to the HAMB! Bruce
Thank you everyone for the information. This will be very helpful. I thought 400.00 might be a little steep, unfortunately I'm finding early ford parts are kind of pricey in my neck of the woods. Speedway has a quick change they call a Nostalgia v8 Quickchange its a Winters unit that looks like a vintage diff. Its a complete unit Winters part number SR2550STB it's pricey at around 3500.00 it also does not offer a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and I already have spoke wheels and www tires in the 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. But by the time I buy the center section kit with the posi. and the original 37 to 48 diff for 400.00 I am looking close the 3500.00 anyway. Maybe I will just stick to a 29 diff. and upgrade after I get the truck built.
GearheadsQCE: Yea, I don't know how to use the "conversation" option, please get in touch with me I am interested in what you have to offer, I am always interested in saving some money! LOL
QCE or Krylon32 can get you the new Winters in whatever setup you want and probably cheaper than Speedway. I do know it’s available with a 5.5” bolt pattern because my Dad bought one.
Here are the pictures of the two general styles of axle trumpets. The later ones ('42-'48) are like the '40s but a bit longer. If you are going to cut the ends off and fit push in axles, it won't matter. It is advisable to get a matched pair, at least by year, so that the tapers are the same on both pieces. 1935 1940
here is the tutorial on private messages (conversations) https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...onversations-replace-private-messages.925518/
I ended up purchasing the rear diff. for 400.00. I think it is a 48, came with everything, torque tube, radius rods, spring, breaks and hubs, breaks are hydraulic. Still unsure if I want to run a quick change. I am thinking of running this rear and possibly up grading once the build is completed. I still need two 29 roadster doors and a windshield to complete the cab.
@Mike802, Since you have a complete rear end with brakes and all, can you post the overall width WMS - WMS. (Wheel Mounting Surface)? With all the hot rod variations: Brakes, Wheel offsets etc. I'd like to have a reference as to the stock width. From the '48 dimension, the other stock WMS specs can be determined. Many guys ask me how wide they should make their rear end. The answer is always mock up with the wheels and tires you intend to run, and measure between the mounting surfaces. This is absolutely the most reliable method to get the correct width. But, when building a hot rod, all the parts are not always readily available at the early stages of the build. Thanx in advance, Bruce
Knowing what I know now, Id go Winters if I had to do it again. Halibrand Centers are super expensive, and you've no idea what you're buying, regardless of what the seller tells you. (although there are exceptions, GearheadsQCE is one, a good guy.) Unless you really 'have to have' a Halibrand, go Winters.
@neilswheels, Thanx for the nice compliment. For the most part, a guy can buy a complete Winters Quickchange for less than he can build up a Halibrand 201. Of course, this depends on how much of the Halibrand he can use (assuming used). He would still wind up with an open differential as there are currently no limited slips that work in an original banjo or Halibrand V8. The reality is that the modern technology is better than the old stuff.
I have had a number of customers have a rough-go when buying original Halibrand centers. The supply seems to have already been well picked over. I have been steering people towards the reproductions from Australia. https://www.pacificquickchange.com.au/ For everything else, including my own rides, it's Winters, all the way. In my instances, it is the Sprint 10-inch ring gear stuff, and not the V8 version.
Hey, Mike802. Welcome to the HAMB. I'm just throwing this out there, since you are doing a Model A, do you know yet if you plan to run the spring on top, like a model A, or use the spring behind like the rear you just bought? Reason I mention it, if running a Model A spring on top, you will need to weld mounting brackets to the bells on the rear you bought. When you switch to a quick change, the pinion angle changes a bit since it's coming out of the bottom vs. the center. The model spring mounts will need to be adjusted to get the spring sitting right in the crossmember. (assuming you are using the model A frame as is) Model A or T spring will clear the quick change center section. I don't think a later, like your '48, "flat" spring will. You can use a Model A or T spring with the bells on the rear you bought. It will be spread a little wider due to the extra length of the '48 bells. Since you will need to shorten the torque tube and drive shaft to fit your model A, all of this may not be right when you install the quick change. Long story short, if you think you are going to do, I would suggest doing it know so you can mock up everything correctly. Just my two cents.
Hi Mike, I've been reading the replies on your post, all very good info from good guys willing to share. Here some info I have learned about the 46-48 banjos. First the side bells are wider which makes it easier to cut to your preferred with whatever it may end up. Second they have the nose bearing on the end of the pinion which makes it stronger than the earlier years of just 2 bearings. You have the rearend that was sought after in the 50's for building quick change rearend for many racers wishing to have the ease of changing gears at the track. I have the same rearend, it was made into a qc by the Frankland family. I'm currently trying to find parts to make mine usable. The guy at Hotrod Works is very knowledgeable and spends time with you to figure what you need. I would suggest that you call them for further assistance. Here is a few pics of what I've ended up with. Remember that this started out with a 46 coupe rearend just like yours. Note that the fill and drain pluge are now on top. .
RE: Nose Bearings: This is what we call a pinion support bearing and Ford banjo style rear ends had this from late 32 onward. The pinion bearings changed a bit over the years - from late 32 to 48, but all of these rears had the support bearing. When you buy used Halibrand 201 style center sections, many of them have been cracked/welded in the pinion bearing support area. There are multiple reasons for this happening - likely because of too much load put on the 201 (as the pinion is trying to force itself away from the ring-gear, causing the casting to split). One has to be very careful buying used Halibrand stuff - any of it --> A, V8/201, 301, etc.. For a modern quick change, the best bet is the Winters unit, with the good differential, etc..
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