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Technical Heres an idea what air and fuel look like entering the cylinder

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Mummert, Mar 23, 2023.

  1. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    Check it out
     
    Tom65, Tman, Elcohaulic and 2 others like this.
  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 10,723

    BJR
    Member

    That was a waste of my time.
     
    WalkerMD, Pocket Nick, SS327 and 9 others like this.
  3. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    You learned nothing about direction or intensity from that? It was a pretty big eye opener for us.
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  4. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,408

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Didn't see a thing. I was expecting a wet flow bench. Fail...
     
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  5. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 13,703

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Key wording “here’s an idea”. Yup, idea failed.
     
    SS327 likes this.
  6. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    It was our first attempt to video wet flow, we eventually got decent footage with different camera angle but things are happening so fast that it has to be slowed down in QuikTime to figure anything out.
     
  7. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,337

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    All I learned was you can't see a thing.
     
  8. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,121

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yeah, but the audio at the end was great ;). LMAO. I wish Smokey Yunick could have had today's video technology so we could have looked at the oil flow inside a running engine. Bet Smokey's audio would have been a little more colorful than, "Ho, ho, ho, ho". Keep at it, @Mummert , you'll get it right yet.
     
    Tom65 likes this.
  9. Country Joe
    Joined: Jan 16, 2018
    Posts: 543

    Country Joe
    Member

    Ok, I thought it was just me.
     
  10. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    Oh yeah these videos are 3 years old or so back when we were on the 600hp or bust program.


    Getting closer
     
  11. I have a wet flow problem, too.
    But my doctor gives me pills for it. :oops:
     
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  12. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 16,225

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The “Farm guy” on you tube made a clear plastic cylinder head on a Briggs and Stratton flat head and you can watch the flame path when it runs.. slo mo is great. John’s video might be better with colored air sucked in as the valve opens and closes in very slow motion.
     
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  13. I think it would work better dry,,,,,,with smoke,,,,,,it would be more visible .
    I know I’m an idiot,,,,but I didn’t get anything from those videos .

    I have much respect for the Mummert group,,,,,,,they make beautiful Parts,,,,,,and it’s not even my brand .

    Tommy
     
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  14. y'sguy
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 753

    y'sguy
    Member
    from Tulsa, OK

    Getting there, but camera needs to be locked down and possibly a polorizing filter. I would consider higher resolution too of course.
     
    Mummert likes this.
  15. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,424

    Beanscoot
    Member

    I think the farm guy channel is "Project Farm".
     
  16. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    These videos were shot in 2020. A little bit of a sequence on how the sausage gets made.
     
  17. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,256

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Fuel / air sure flow different being "forced" out, vs being "pulled" in to the cylinder !

    Mike
     
  18. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    Truthfully there is no difference at all. The manifold side of the head is 28" higher than the cylinder side either way you do it.
     
  19. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 14,737

    Budget36
    Member

    I think we’re just not seeing what you are looking for/at.
    Maybe an explanation of your test method and what to look for would help us out.

    Edit: can you also explain the “manifold side is 28 inches higher” as well? I don’t understand that reference.
     
    Mummert and Outback like this.
  20. 28 inches of water .

    Tommy
     
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  21. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 14,737

    Budget36
    Member

    I see.
     
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  22. Dave's32insocal
    Joined: Mar 4, 2017
    Posts: 73

    Dave's32insocal
    Member

    I really appreciate John’s love of a certain series of a Ford engine! I’m a huge fan! 6E30D560-0B6D-472E-BCB7-ECA79EFFF850.jpeg
     
  23. It just goes to show yah . . . us motorheads can get our talons into all sorts of different engines and they become an obsession to us. You're doing some great work - thanks for all you do. I've not built/run a Y-block yet, maybe some day . . . I'd run your heads if I did. I'm just as wacko about my dang flatheads and early Hemis . . . and pondering building a Buick Nailhead. I know - not the most popular engines these days, but a lot of fun!
     
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  24. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    More videos are coming if I can find that second sd card of the evolution. It should start helping you guys understand.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  25. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,385

    finn
    Member

    I think you’re going to learn more with some refined cfd models. The models we were using fifteen years ago were outstanding, and I’m sure they have progressed significantly since them.

    When I started in engine combustion development in the mid seventies, we had some high speed combustion films floating around in the engine lab. What I recall is that a transparent window was installed in the head, and high speed photography utilized to make 16mm films, that were played back in slow motion. All that stuff got trashed, as there wasn’t good documentation re the parameter changes between the various segments.
     
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  26. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    If you have the time and enough information to make accurate models you could be right. But sometimes its very interesting to be there with parts and the elements.
     
    jimmy six likes this.
  27. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    The final configuration camera angle and cylinder head. Good enough for 609hp and 510 ft/lbs out of 356 ci.
     
  28. From the markings,,I’m assuming 25 inches at .500 lift ?
    Good looking results .

    Tommy
     
  29. Mummert
    Joined: Jun 3, 2012
    Posts: 225

    Mummert
    Member

    Yeah, wet flow is supposed to look the most correct around 70% of full lift. We back the test pressure down a bit just to settle thing a little.
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  30. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,619

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    So, my OT mill has 'Swirl Port' heads, no CD to watch, just specified "They Are!"
    Didn't seem so advanced to me, the way SBC guys were talking about 'em. I installed a 290* Comp cam and Rhodes lifters, matched ports on an Edelbrock RPM intake, 650 CFM Holley.
    My, that woke it up... Glad it did.
    Otherwise, I'd have waited for this^^^ movie... :p:cool:
     

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