I get what you're saying, I just don't find chasing speed to be practical when modern car technology is eclipsing our vintage hot rods. If you're trying to keep up with the joneses, you'll always be behind. With the gearing and up to 10-speed transmissions of a lot of modern cars, plus the instant torque of electric motors in hybrid and full electric vehicles, I'm of no illusion that I'll build stuff that beats modern cars from stoplight to stoplight. You'll have your work cut out for you if that's your wish. I get pride from being able to tune a carburetor and build low-cost stuff that is faster than it ever was intended to be. Beating granny's grocery getter off the line is a world that is behind us unless you want to build something high-powered (probably turbo) with a high-tech suspension that may be prone to overheating and not in the vein of old school cool. I build stuff that is faster than it was ever supposed to be, but I don't need it to be the fastest on the street. That's a losing proposition to me as something else will always be faster, especially when entering the electric age with zero to sixty times in the 5.1 second range even for a Tesla Model 3. A 14 or 15 second Model A is still fast, in my book.
We've reached a point where hot rodding isn't as much about going fast as taking back the technology — technology which has increasingly been cultivated in specific efforts to be inaccessible to us — be that for our individual selves or for people who are in all important respects like us, i.e. our equals in a real, practical sense. You're a hot rodder when a.) you put actual creativity at a technological nitty-gritty level into a build, and b.) the work is done either by yourself or by your substantial equals on the basis of really free and equal agreements, and neither by slaves blithely commanded to "make it so" nor by the Very Big Corporation for an easy monthly subscription. I can't elaborate half an inch further without it becoming political, so I won't.
@krylon32 I think that hotrodder is a state of mind thing. I know lots of people who own cars that are not hot rodders they are just people with cars. Where is your heart at man. That determines what you are more then what you own or how much you build.
From 3 to 103 (just an arbitrary number), if this is how you feel….you are a Hot Rodder. Don’t get me wrong, building over buying gets more respect. So does driving over trailering. But no matter these factors, it’s more a state of mind. Oh, and whether or not ya still like planting that right foot through the floorboards.
If you were once, chances you are good that you still are one. …and my factory stock Tesla is faster than my A/SR from the sixties.
Yes , I believe you ARE a Hotrodder. Its a state of mind and a lifestyle. Enjoy your hot rods, does not matter what anyone else thinks at the end of the day.
I can't even comprehend that situation. At 16 my old man let me drive his old car (a 64 Olds with a 394) if I bought the gas, and paid for the insurance. There was no way he would have even considered an Isky cam, but maybe he would have let me pay for the paint job myself. Before I had a job (1st one mowing lawns at 13), he would pay my way into the local dirt track to sit in the stands with the rest of the family. My dad provided a roof over my head, food in my belly, and the essentials of life. Anything I wanted past that was up to me to buy. I started out on this hot rod adventure at 19 yo after I was married and moved away from Dad's house. I bought those old junkers that didn't run and fixed them myself. I bought the carbs, the cams, the headers, and anything else the car got, after I provided a home and transportation for my wife and soon to come family. I played that fastest car deal when I was in my early 20s, it didn't take me long to figure out I didn't have enough money to do that (I ran a part time business after a 10 hour day job to support my car habits). The best chance I had was to make those junkers I could afford to be as fast as I could. Better motors and the right combo of parts worked well. The goal was to make it better then it was when I bought it. Fast forward to my retirement. On my retirement checks, with my wife's encouragement (same wife I married at 19), I under took some big improvements to the old Hot Rod I had (none of them added more power, they improved our enjoyment we have of the old ride), and yes, new paint was included. Then, with my wife's encouragement, I bought truck sheet metal and built a hot rod truck from a pile of parts. It drove like a way over powered go cart, it was fast, but not the fastest truck in town. I sold that truck. Then I bought the sheet metal for a different truck, 10 years newer then the 1st one (the current truck is a 1949), and built a truck from a pile of parts. Its not as fast as the last truck (but close 42 CI smaller), but has a lot more things we like, including better mpg, which means we can drive it more. The 49 has a basically stock V8, auto trans, disc brakes, and yes, new paint. I've converted from go fast to drive often and have fun without concern of breaking parts. Pics of my current truck. Its my hot rod, and its faster, handles better, and has better brakes then it ever could have had in stock form, and as you can see, its better then it was when I got it. I did everything except spray the paint.
Either choice makes you a hotrodder, provided you are excited by it (and grateful your old man thinks that way). You already proved you were a hotrodder (before your 16th birthday) by the scraping, saving and work. Cheers, Harv
We all have different views on what a hotrodder is (or a hotrod for that matter). A lopey idle will always turn my head, though I look at some of the talent on this forum chopping, channelling and laying paint deep enough to swim in. I would not exclude those people from being hotrodders. Being tolerant of different opinions is what makes the HAMB a great place to learn. Cheers, Harv
I guess you need to define what a "performance modification" is. If its to make something faster, what does it need to be faster then? Have you driven any modern transportation device? Some do indeed kick butt. My friends mini van V6 has 300+ hp from around 200 ci. Do you consider better brakes as a performance modification? If your adding HP but not improving the brake system, you are looking for trouble. Do you consider improved vehicle handling as a performance modification? Performance is not always measured in a straight line quarter mile, throw an "S" curve (or two) in there, then we will talk. If the vehicle body has been moved to a better built chassis then it had before (nearly everything had to be modified to make it fit) that improves the overall vehicle performance, do you consider that a performance modification? If I got all done, then painted it to look better, and added a few creature comforts, did I just throw out everything else? Adding modern HP is easy, but its not HAMB friendly. Most of it does not include a new cam. The "mostly stock" motor in my truck probably equals or exceeds the HP of most of the HAMB era hot rods that were not race cars. It appears we may be on opposite ends of the "What is a hot rod?" question. To your point of view, buying parts to increased motor performance is required, to my point of view, buying parts to increased motor performance may not be required and motor performance is only part of the deal. Neither are wrong, just different.
Hey @krylon32 , are you sorry you asked ??? Questions like that are a bit like "Speak the name of the demon thrice, and he shall appear....."
I have always shunned lables, they are for soup cans. The other thing that has always given me a wry smile is the somewhat elitist BS `Built not bought` mentality. Its a VERY select group of people that can do everything and most builds have a lot of hands in them, either with friends or shops or a combination of the 2. In fact if everyone did everything themselves many of the cars that have had the most impact on the hobby would never have been built. Think all the Barris cars owned by others than George as an example straight off the bat. I guess the takeaway for me, especially coming out the bike scene, it has always been its the person rather than the vehicle that matters.
Hello, You have set your life skills a long time ago. It does not stop, even if some horrific malady happens and your whole life changes in a different direction like ours did in 1960. For us, it just gave us time to step back and realize that there are other things in life to explore. It also gives anyone the time it takes to try different things to see if it coincides with your lifestyle. But, those directions allow you to decide which experiences or adventures your life will follow. Being retired was something no teenagers even contemplated back then. All of our parents (mostly the dads…) were working class folks and they seemed happy with their lives. We certainly were happy with our teenage lives. Our hot rod adventures led us to building our first hot rod/drag race car as teenagers. It was fun and exciting. When we were stuck and knew we could not do “all” of the work, (port/polish, larger bore, balancing crank, 671 rebuild to race specs, etc.) We let the big time shops experts do the work… So, thanks Reath Automotive for the expert information and needed help. But, it was time to move forward and the road ahead was wide open. For some, the direction pointed to military. To others, college and for some, settling down to a family + business of some kind. hot rods are always there and during our post drag racing years, we tried to do what we liked and moved on in our post teenage years. With our mechanical skills, we did what we could and still liked it. New projects that were beyond our reach were given to those that could help us get “back on the road again…” For most of us still around, it has been a long road. Most did not pursue any of the things my wife and I enjoyed from the teenage years onward. They mostly did vocations that made a lot of money and a different lifestyle than we had. So, for them, hot rodding, surfing, motorcycling and other adventures did not work out for them. Jnaki But, for most fun activities we did, it did not matter if we were the sole contributor to the project at hand. When I tried to make a surfboard with my own ideas and shapes, it came out looking pretty good, but the proportions that started out ok, ended up custom built for a 4’5 inch kid. But, oh did the kid rip on the finished surfboard!!! In the surfboard industry, it was wide open for skilled people, but when I needed a new surfboard, it was farmed out to a friend already established in the industry. That did not lessen the involvement in surfing or our own adventures, it only enhanced it. 327powered 1940 Ford Sedan Delivery project... Building a hot rod project took time and when we hit a roadblock, professionals in suspension, tires/wheels and expert repairs took over for the next few months. A lot of the 327 SBC sedan delivery was there, but as we all know, not everyone’s idea of a type or way of building is the same. So, changes had to be made and sometimes it was beyond our reach or was going to take too long for us. In our fairly long lives together, plus our earlier experiences, taught us to roll the punches, with many situations and make the best of the current lifestyle. It is safe to say, we did not harm anyone, made any place or group of people mad or outraged and our lives went the way we thought it would go. (our old friends had their own lives and not all turned out to be similar…) But, being retired did give us plenty of time to still explore other avenues of excitement. Traveling, different sailboats, our granddaughter’s life and what challenges they each offered, while adjusting to dealing with those life enhancing activities, all made it worthwhile. Still, with the old hot rod inclination brewing up ideas along the way. We spent a lot of time with our granddaughter and we knew she was growing up fast in these times. So, doing our best to try and introduce our granddaughter to the hot rod world and custom designs. She liked the weekend cars and coffee events and even found a personalized license plate with her name on it. She still chuckles at the "flames" drawn on most everything, including restaurant allowed paper table cloths and a flaming ice cream truck that had the best custom made ice cream we tasted. As each activity comes to a close, we are ok with that. We now concentrate on our current retired lives to be as comfortable and healthy as we possibly can be at the moment, despite the pandemic years. It is still going on and we are still in the vulnerable group, so we take care of our situations well. Money? Ha… while struggling in those early years, we are now comfortable as we have made it to be. Now, it is to be funneled to our granddaughter's next 4-5 years of her own college experiences. Your life is the direction you decide to follow. No one should have a say in your happiness except for the person sharing your life’s adventures for the last 57 years… YRMV Note: We have still tried to stay involved physically by setting our sights on another hot rod project, but the three times we decided at the final moment, those hot rod project cars were sold and we missed the boat. Something was telling us that what we are able to do with the hot rod/drag race world from the past was fine and we are ok with that. Although a nice 1940 Ford Convertible with an SBC motor would make my wife's day anytime. She even keeps the conversation going by pointing out the fact that she took these photos would have purchased it, if it were for sale... that would be her choice for continuing on our old hot rod lives...
I guess it's a state of mine? I have older guys say if you didn't build it you should not drive it and then other say if you brought it it's yours. So if you believe your a hotrodder than you must be. But if you buy a high dollar custom and can't talk about what motor or trans in in it or what mods have been done to it other will say your just tiring to buy your way into the hobby. Hell I am as confused as a baby in a topless bar,
I think what the original post ultimately gets at is the question of whether someone who commissions either all or part of a build, or someone who purchases a completed car, is a hot rodder like someone who does all of it themselves. My thought is maybe. There is definitely a spectrum, and I think the area is mostly gray rather than black and white. One thing I would say is that someone should have at least a little knowledge about the car and how it works. They shouldn't be completely clueless to mechanical devices, and a hot rodder would understand how to do basic maintenance and even some basic work, like perhaps swapping an intake and carb. But beyond that, it gets fuzzy. People contribute to this hobby in many different ways. Some are builders. Some are designers. Some are artists. Some are musicians. Some are historians. Some simply appreciate the style and genre and are just owners. There are substrata of each category, and nobody could possibly do all of it. All are "hot rodders". I will say something that is perhaps a bit controversial; "Built not Bought" is the dumbest nonsense that has ever been perpetrated on the automotive hobby. Period. The mindset of this fallacy is rooted in the notion that people who are builders are more credible hot rodders than those who contract their services. That the people who are builders garner more respect. And conversely, to diminish the involvement or credibility of the people who purchased a done car or hired a builder for some/all of their car. This is idiotic for a number of reasons. Some of which are: -For whatever reason, the automotive hobby seems to be the only place that we do this. In no other aspect of life do we take this same tact. Ever walk in to someone's house, and maybe they have a real nice place, nobody says to them, "Nice house...but did you build it???" Of course not. It was purchased that way, and that's completely acceptable. And even if the house was renovated, nobody diminishes the owner's role because they contracted out their HVAC, plumbing or roofing. This same thought holds true for basically every other tangible item. Nice watch, did you build it? No, Rolex did. Nice suit, did you sew it? No, Ermenegildo Zegna did. And so on and so on. But for whatever reason, when someone has a nice old car, the question is asked, and if the owner did not build the car or build the whole car, it's implied that that's somehow less respectable than if they had. I disagree. -The "Built not Bought" slogan, IMHO, has been a dog whistle for a preemptive excuse for why a car has shortcomings. The RR scene is the extreme example of this. In my personal belief, there are no moral victories or grades on a curve. Good, quality workmanship is an objective reality that is quantifiable, and that goes for both home builders and so-called professionals alike. There has been a lot of incredible work to come out of home shops, and a lot of terrible work to come out of so-called professional shops, too. Right is right, wrong is wrong. So when you see a car that is "built not bought" and it has marginal body work, a slapped together interior, doesn't run right, is wired poorly, etc., you have to think that perhaps it would have been better to buy quality workmanship. Obviously not everybody is in this station in life where they can afford to have cars built, especially for what are essentially frivolous expenses like this hobby. But the people who thumb their nose at those at those who are able to afford to contract work are as much of a scourge on this hobby as anyone. -When push comes to shove, builders, painters, body men, engine builders, etc., need work too. And if everyone "built not bought", then these people would have no business. The people buying their services and parts are just as important to the hobby as they are. They represent the other half of the transaction. -Every day, we commission the services of experts in given fields to handle work we can't or won't do ourselves. It has absolutely nothing to do with intellect or skill necessarily. I have 2 degrees, 3 bar admissions, and am a certified trial attorney. I like to consider myself a pretty intelligent person. But I don't do my own dentistry. Part of being smart is knowing when you need to consult the services of an expert to get result you desire. If I wanted a laser-straight candy paint job, I would consult an expert body man and painter, the same way I would expect that same painter to consult someone like myself if they were injured in a accident and sought to litigate a personal injury action. On the other hand, sometimes it just makes sense to leave the work to an expert who can do it faster and cheaper than I could. Your time has value. As for the OP, he's definitely a hot rodder.
I like the "general contractor" because I have been a contractor for 30 years. There are all levels of contractors most of them ride around in a $80,000 truck and line up subs. I always liked to do what I could do on a house trim, paint, tile, cabinets, etc. As a hot rodder I really like the HAMB but at the same time find it a bit intimidating. Lots of talent on here. I am trying to build a roadster. The issue I am running into is energy and knees. At 75 not as much energy and the old body just does not co-operate. I find it really difficult to get down on the garage floor. I think I will continue to do what I can do and call it good. Better than sitting in a chair watching T.V.
You need to get your roadster up on jack stands, and get an adjustable height rolling seat. You would be amazed at what you can get done. I do that building headers, to save the knees, and keep from curling my toes up. I will be 75 this Fall.
Labels are for pigeonholes, not for people. If I had to define hot-rodder, I would say it is someone who enjoys vehicles, and is not satisfied with the common-place. Jon
There are different levels of Hot Rodderism, there is Art Chrisman, and then there is the rest of us !
Since the original question here was about how genuine a hot rodder one is if they did not do it all themselves I imagine few have all those skills and resources. The hot rod part business enabled countless individuals to participate. There is great pride in building it all and there should be no shame in buying what you want or need. I am sure everyone back in the day who bolted on a dual carb manifold with some dual exhaust felt like a hot rodder. Since the ‘30s, when hop up mods were done to model Ts, buying parts up to and including speedster bodies has been the method for countless hot rodders.
The Jalopy Journal
