My father-in-law sold a 66 Chevy c10 on eBay. The buyer is in California we are in New York . The buyer received the truck and released the funds to my father-in-law. Here’s the problem it once came from Ohio where it had undergone a frame transplant and in Ohio this classified it as a salvage title . And they gave the truck a new vin number. Here in New York once it was run through our DMV with the new vin number it came back with a clear title. Now the buyer is claiming he can’t redgister in California because they tried running it with the old vin ( still on the truck) not the new vin that Ohio had put on the truck. Why wouldn’t he be able the truck in California with the transferable registration we gave him? Nowhere on the registration does it say salvage.
There IS NO help from the Ca. DMV. Sorry...had to say it. Been there, more than once, as many of us have. Best of luck. Mike
If it has been issued a new VIN, then the VIN that is on the truck that is not the new one, is void. It cannot be registered ever again with that number. If I am understanding this correctly, Ohio issued a new VIN. It was registered and titled in New York under the new Ohio VIN. If that is correct, it must be registered and titled in California with that new VIN. California does not care if there is a salvage brand on the title, in any case. They will register it just the same.
I have been going to one or another CA DMV for 25-years. I have processed about 180 vehicles. I have not ever had a single problem.
It is a crappy situation, for both parties. Was the buyer aware before he bought it that it had two vin numbers on it? In CA to have an out of state vehicle registered it must have 2 visible vin numbers. Usually the metal tag, and frame number. If you go to a private dmv specialist you may be able to get past 2, but at DMV you need 2 or they refer you to the California Hwy patrol to have it verified ( for this reason, to catch cars that numbers do not match up. In this case the Assigned Vin by Ohio would and should take precedence and be able to get put thru. It really depends on the buyer if he likes the truck and wants to jump thru the hoops. If buyer was not aware of the altered numbers he may be upset?
As far as I know....the dmv sees the frame as a replacement part. I don't think they look at the frame at all when doing vin verifications. Things may have changed as they always do. I'm not sure that CA DMV needs to see 2 examples of the vin. I always thought that was a 1970 and later thing when the certification labels were used on the driver's door or jamb. I'm assuming there is a new Ohio DMV issued vin plate somewhere? It also has the original vin tag? Did you disclose any of this? Any seasoned car guy can get around these issues...but I can understand if he is unhappy under these circumstances. I can also understand why he can't simply transfer the title using your paperwork and the vin tag whose numbers don't appear on said paperwork.
That’s exactly what we thought. And Ohio should have removed the original vin when they riveted the new vin tags on.
Yes the truck has the new vin tags on the frame and the body . We posted clear pictures of the Ohio vin tags .
For a little while they wanted to see two, until they relented and changed the rule, after enough people pointed out that even their own book says that plenty of vehicles only had one in the first place.
If the VIN on those tags matches the title, and the appearance of the tags matches what is in the DMV inspectors reference book, this is a non-issue. In this case, I do not trust that the buyer has actually tried to register it, or is trying to do something wrong. I have done several vehicles with this exact scenario. The DMV employee just headed out to look at the tags, and checked them against the book. Then we went back inside, finished up, and I left with reg and plates. The title arrived in the customary time frame.
I worked for a CA regulatory/enforcement Alphabet agency for over 20 of my 30 plus years with the state. And no, not the DMV. That said its time to move up the chain to sort this. You need to get a supervisor or Sacramento HQ involved. It sounds like whoever inputed the VIN at the CA DMV used the old VIN not the newer assigned (i.e. correct VIN). As in dealing with all agencies they don't always get things correct the first time BUT with patience and perseverance things can be fixed. If all else fails contacting your local state representative can move things along. Don't ask me how I know.
As a former State Licensed Vehicle Verifier, I can honestly say that I have been to a CA DMV more times than any 10 other members likely have been in their lifetimes. From my observation 15 out of every 10 problems that people have at the DMV are self-induced.
Where in Taxifornia ?…. In use an office in Hawaiian Gardens that specializes in problems. Ex DMV employees. If local will com to your house. The problem was trying to use the original VIN..
Tell the buyer to download and print out form REG31. https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/forms/?q=reg+31#forms-filter-bar Have them take the truck to wherever the local PD can be found, and have them politely ask an officer to fill out and sign the form. Tell them to not sign or date it themselves until told to do so by the DMV employee. Then have them take that to the DMV. The only time that it is mandatory that the vehicle be checked by a DMV inspector, or by CHP is when there is a missing title.
How did he get the old number. It should have been removed from the truck, non existent. In it's place, or reasonable proximity should be the official state issued vin. It is no longer a 66 Chevrolet, it is what Ohio put on the title that matches the state assigned vin.
My question is who tried to run it through with the original vin number rather than the assigned vin? Did the buyer think he was going to circumnavigate the assigned vin and use the original number that the Ohio inspector should have removed from the truck when it got the assigned vin or did the not paying attenton inspector ignore the assigned vin and look at the old vin? I'd bet that the buyer thought he was going to cut a fat hot and try to run it with the original number thinking that that would increase value over having a rebuilt/assigned title.
And, if the buyer has removed the Ohio assigned tags in this process, he now owns a non-vehicle. Only a agent of a state, any state, can legally remove or replace an identity tag or stamping. Either way, this is not the sellers problem. I have provided the instructions to handle this properly. The buyer should consider themselves fortunate if the seller forwards them on to them.
There are private DMV title services companies here in Ca.The new owner should call one,and lay out what they have.These companies do their own VIN verification,and paper work to get the owner a title if it can be done.Sometimes busting out the wallet is the simpler way.If your the seller you might offer to pay part of the fee if they go this route,but thats up to you.
If I were to guess, as it is the victim of a frame swap, the frame and title is for a Post 76 truck, which is subject smog, with all the correct emissions equipment needing to be in place. The new owner may have tried to circumvent the process, and register it as a 66, not what Ohio said it was. Another reason to avoid frame swaps.
Is there a national registry? If a vehicle is sold with a bill of sale, no title available, when California DMV does a vin or serial number verification, is it a national check or just California? Or as a twist to what 327Eric brought up, say a truck body gets damaged (73 square body, not applicable to this forum, just an example) and is replaced with an 80 square body on the original 73 frame, does it remain registered as a 73 or an 80? Then there is the question of back halved cars or front clipped cars, guess this is a complicated subject. Also, there are several vehicles here locally in California that have 50's bodies on 80's and up 4x4 frames, registered as 50's vehicles. Isn't it legit to do a suspension upgrade? Again, complicated subject and registration of modified vehicles in California can be more complicated than other states; sometimes it depends on the DMV employee or the law enforcement officer if one gets pulled over. From personal experience, Michigan is much easier to register old cars verses California.
Along the lines of Mr48Chevy, I assume you know when the Ohio VINs were put? If so, have the buyer take a pic of them to make sure they are still in place. I had to have a number on the tongue of a trailer I built, in Ca it’s a sticker. I asked a few questions about size, etc. after I painted it I fashioned up a small aluminum plate for them to stick it on. Assuming Ohio uses the same kind of sticker, it would be all messed up if scraped off.
That is the way I see it; wanted a '66 Chevy title. Now that those numbers have been entered into the CA. DMV system, he created a bunch of extra work. The puzzling thing here is...why buy a truck from rust prone Ohio/New York, when you live in California?
^^^ What @irishsteve said. I've used a DMV title company in Nor Cal for both my truck and my roadster after struggling with DMV. She inspects the vehicle, writes up all the paperwork, deals with DMV, gets the title, and even delivers the title and license plates to me. No muss, no fuss. Worth every penny. Truck was $80 about 9 years ago. Roadster was $100 last year.
I would tell the buyer to go pound sand. You sent him a valid title with a valid vin. He chose to use the numbers on the frame that did not match the valid title you furnished him. Not your problem, he created the mess.
Thing is that the OHIO assigned vin could actually be researched in in the Ohio dmv archives with the state inspectors notes as to why it has the assigned vin. I know what I would do if I were Oldsvroom, I'd tell the guy to take photos of the OHIO assigned vin tags on the truck with The front page of the current ( day of photo) local to him newspaper showing the date in the the photo to show that he has not removed the assigned numbers. If he cannot prove that those assigned numbers are still on the truck he is SOL.
I cannot speak to Michigan. From my experience, I have never had trouble. I roll in with paper and payment, and roll out with plates. Then again, I have never tried to do anything illegal, so who knows.
Indeed. This should have been a simple out-of-state registration and titling. These are done every single day, with no remark, in all 50-states, and even with assigned VIN's. This has nothing do do with California, and everything to do with a buyer not simply following the laws. Those laws, incidentally, at-least in California, are written in plain English, at the 6th grade reading level. I hear people complain about the DMV here very frequently. It usually takes just a few questions asked of them, from me, to determine that they are indeed the ones that caused all of the problems. The laws are all online. The forms are all online. The instructions are all online. I will even tell people exactly what to say, and, more importantly, exactly what not to say. Countless people go right on through, in an thoroughly uneventful fashion, every single day, by the thousands. California has just over 40,000,000 registered vehicles, and close to 1,3000 field offices that can register cars, and that is before you start counting private registration businesses. If the CA DMV system is as bad as people claim that it is, it would be in the national news. It's not. There are just a few people ranting on the internet about how things did not go the way that they expected that they would. Who are the odd-ones-out here?
The real problem is the state hasn't granted the counter people the power to grant the "special exemptions" that people feel their case is due.
I can tell ya one story. In 90’s I bought a ‘32 Dodge PU w/o title. DMV gave me the paperwork for the CHP to verify the serial number. Took that back to the DMV after she typed it in, gave me a form printed out with two remaining items to be done Certified weight Smog check. I asked “smog to what standard”? After a few minutes of discussion it was “well it’s in the system now” In retrospect had I known better I should have asked for a supervisor.
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