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Projects Big daddy's 1960 El Camino

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Lloyd's paint & glass, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's 3/8" all the way to the carburetor. No damage that I'm aware of though
     
  2. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    As long as it's 36⁰ all in, isn't that all that matters? It starts fine the way it is.
     
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  3. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
    Member

    So, I’m confused a bit (by wording) but anyways, “15 initial and 35 total” the “dropped “ -I think you mean “upped” to 36? the initial is at 21? If it was me I’d pull the distributor and do some polishing/spring inspection, etc. look at where the weights ride, etc. seems like something is hanging up. I’d expect 1 more degree total to be 1 more degree initial.
     
  4. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    The other day I set the timing at 15 initial, had 35 total. Dealt with the carburetor jelly and raised the timing to 40 total. Today I put it back at 36 total, adjusted my light to find initial and it's at 21. So right now it's 21 initial, and at 3000 rpm it's at 36. So it's only advancing 15⁰. But, the way I see it, the total number is my concern, right?
     
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  5. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
    Member

    Yes, but the times I’ve done it to get total, initial changed the same amount at total did.
    That was made me ask and thought it was strange.

    Edit: as you have heard before…9 of 10 fuel problems are ignition, 9 of 10 ignition problems are fuel.
    :)
     
  6. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 3,355

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Exactly!
    Are you running an amplifier box? That can fuck up the timing reading's with newer timing lights.
     
  7. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    No sir
     
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  8. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 3,355

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I vote for the Delco points distributor. Simple as hell... NO Wizardry! :D
     
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  9. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 3,343

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Your advance weights are hanging up Lloyd.
     
  10. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    I checked it all before I put it in, but I'll check it. It's aggravating lol
     
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  11. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 4,090

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Putting in the distributor that @Moriarity sent you will fix that problem!
     
  12. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Yeah that's my plan. Process of elimination lol
     
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  13. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,620

    gene-koning
    Member

    If you originally had 21 degrees of advance but now you only have 15 degrees, something in your spark advance isn't functioning correctly. The degrees of advance is not dependent on what the initial timing is set at, it is dependent on the advance weights movement and any vacuum advance the distributor has. Either advance process could cause an inconsistent number of advancement degrees.

    If the motor is seeing the full 21 degrees of advance at say 3,000 rpm, but the advance drops to 15 degrees at 5500 rpm, the motor is seeing an actual retard in the timing. When you let off the gas, if it gets those extra 6 degrees advance back, the motor will come back and will act like there was a lack of fuel.

    I also do not see a motor of this CI consuming the amount of fuel a 3/8" line can provide but 5500 rpm is running that $19 fuel pump pretty fast, maybe it can't keep up. I believe the loss of timing advance is your issue and would eliminate that possibility first.

    Then again I must point out that one time one of our dirt track cars experienced a loss of fuel delivery at higher rpm. What we found was that the hot exhaust was being trapped near a 3/8" fuel line and the heat was effecting the fuel delivery. Rerouting the fuel line solved that problem. Might be worth looking at your exhaust and your fuel line and be sure your not cooking the fuel in the gas line someplace under the ride. Its a long shot that can be easily eliminated.
     
  14. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Thanks for the info Gene. I'm gonna isolate the ignition system next. The way I plumbed the fuel line I'm positive its nowhere close to any heat. Once I sort out the ignition, if the problem still exists, I guess I'll go to the pump.
     
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  15. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,776

    Tickety Boo
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The 600 Holley would have plenty cfm to feed a 283 at 5500 rpm, The distributer advance seems to be sticking on you so clean and check for smooth full movement of the distributor weights, Then I would check to see if it repeats the timing curve a few times with the help of someone one running the gas pedal while watching the tach for you to check the timing at idle and 1000 rpm then 2000 rpm and see if it's all in 36 degrees by 3000 rpm, write down the results at each rpm an check if you get the same results again, ;) if not something on the weights is rubbing or binding, might find it by looking for witness marks on weights or the bottom of rotor.

    Worked on a poochy 429 ford that would not spin a tire after a new 4-barrel Holley and ProForm's new HEI GM type distributor for fords?
    The owner thought it was carburetor problems but after checking the timing curve we found only 10-degree total movement, after a couple of dissembles we found a witness mark on the bottom of the rotor, filed enough plastic so it wouldn't rub the bottom and then installed a light spring kit, rechecked and now we had 22 degree total movement
    That motor turned into a tire peeling animal with a smiley faced owner :):D:D:D
     

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  16. LWEL9226
    Joined: Jul 7, 2012
    Posts: 361

    LWEL9226
    Member
    from So. Oregon

    Several years ago I had an off topic F250 with a 4776 Holley on a 410FE that would run out of fuel on a hard pull....
    Turned out I had gone through the carb and some how the needle and seat I used was causing a restriction.... Changed that out and the problem went away.....

    LynnW
     
  17. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 3,785

    SS327

    Lloyd think of it this way. It’s a hot summer day and that ice cold Miller Lite is 12’ away from you and you want it bad, very bad! But the only way to get it is to suck it through a straw while you sit in the seat of a rocket sled with the beer behind you. You start sucking on the straw to get that delicious golden brew but you’re accelerating faster and faster! As you suck inertia is working against you to pull that icy goodness back to the bottle.
    The same thing is happening to the fuel in the line 2 opposing forces working against each other. Put an electric pump at the tank and don’t look back. It’s easier to push fuel with pressure than suck it with vacuum.
     
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  18. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Changed the distributor out, got it running, set the timing, and it started raining. Straightened up the plug wires and the some other wires under the hood, and decided i wasn't going out in the rain lol. So here i am! It's at 15⁰ initial and 36 total without the vacuum advance hooked up. We'll see how it does when it isn't raining. Getting ready to go to the fireman's dinner. Y'all be good
     
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  19. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
    Member

    I don’t know if what you say is right, etc, but damn I enjoyed reading it!
     
  20. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Hey at least the sending unit is at the rear now, so it's not fighting to pull fuel under acceleration lol. Now I want a beer...
     
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  21. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Well I'm proud to say it's not a fuel delivery issue. Took it out today and it ran like a raped ape! Well, for what it is lol. No cutting out, spins to 5 grand without a hiccup. Feel much better about it now. 20230506_182758.jpg
     
  22. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
    Member

    Soooo, what did you do to cure it?
     
  23. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 36,950

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    did you put the points dist that I sent you in it???
     
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  24. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Changed the ignition system. When I pulled the rotor on the other distributor, the holes in the weights were oval and the pins were wore down. So I just pulled it. Yeah Mark i put your distributor in it, and pulled it back out when I realized that I have 6 sets of plug wires, and none are for the points cap. So I put the aftermarket distributor in it that I had wires for.
     
  25. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,564

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Why didn't you just go to the kitchen cabinet with your plug wires and get a new set? Oops, not everyone has a kitchen cabinet full of plug wires like @Moriarity.:cool:
     
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  26. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 36,950

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    D2B9CBC6-7432-4ABA-826C-478470FFFA78.jpeg B26B29E2-E883-43C7-8CCC-CB3CFE96ACC7.jpeg
     
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  27. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
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  28. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,793

    Lloyd's paint & glass
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    Me too man. Only set they had here in my little town was the $19 junk. So I went the other route. I'll use the points setup in the big block
     
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  29. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 36,950

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

  30. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 15,200

    Budget36
    Member

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