Technical Can we have a thread all about tig welding early ford sheet metal

Hello,

stuff like what rod to buy and what gauge

lens and tungsten

amperage of welder to buy.

earing on the side of budget welders
200 amp synergic igbt 4 in one welders?

am about to buy one of these
specifically to weld early ford tin
5IN1 Synergy MIG Welder 200Amp 220V IGBT Aluminum LIFT TIG MIG Welding Machine | eBay

what guage steel is a 36 ford front fender?
when i buy steel, what am i asking for - carbon content and the like?

i.e.
don't need a water cooled three phase machine or anything like that
hobby low cycle welding
Specification:
Rated input voltage (V) 220V
Frequency (HZ) - 50/60
Rated input power (KW) - MIG: 5.7; TOG: 4.37; MMA: 6.3
Rated input current (A) - MIG: 36.0; TIG: 28.1; MMA: 40.5
Rated input apparent power (KVA) - MIG: 7.8; TIG: 6.21; MMA: 8.9
Welding current adjust range (A) - 10 ~ 200
Welding voltage adjust range (V) - 10 ~ 26
Duty cycle (40℃ 10min) - 25%, 200A; 60%, 150A; 100% 130A
No load voltage (V) - 50V (adjustable)
Power factor - MIG: 0.73; TIG: 0.70; MMA: 0.71
Efficiency(%) - ≥80%
Protection class - IP23
Insulation class - F

what is LIFT tig welding by the way?
4.TIG FUNCTION - Can use 1.6mm and 2.4mm tungsten.When using 1.6mm tungsten can weld 0.7 ~ 4.8 thickness, using 2.4mm tungsten can weld 1.2 ~ 6.4mm thickness

 

Practice, practice and more practice

 

yes, i cannot even - if you liek get out of the gate
as i don't know what rod to buy
and what guage sheet steel
-that bad........

 

I’ve always been told that the early Ford sheet metal was 19 gauge. That’s around .042 inch thick. I use mild steel filler rod of the ER70S-2 variety. Usually use 1/16” diameter filler rod. If you have a perfect fitment you can use .035” diameter rod. I think the ER70S-2 makes a weld that is a little easier to grind, sand, finish than the ER70S-6 rod does but I have used it before when no S-2 was available.

 

ER70S-2 is usually available and has never been a problem for me to metalfinish out.

I don't use anything over .035 rod for sheetmetal.

Early Ford stuff is around 19 gauge yes. I've patched it with 18 which is really too thick and makes it difficult to smooth out the weld transition. I prefer to use 20 as it is actually closer to whatever the Ford steel thickness is. Thicker leaves more room for error in case you are worried about grinding through it, but once you get the hang of it that shouldn't be an issue.

I run the TIG between 30-45 amps for sheetmetal. So any 200 amp welder is plenty sufficient. I do a lot of sheetmetal and some mild chassis fab work regularly and have not had the need for a water cooler setup. Get a machine that is a high frequency start...some welders have "scratch start" meaning the arc wont jump until you touch the tungsten to the material and lift off. HF start will jump as soon as you hit the pedal.

I use 2% thoriated or ceriated tungsten....I don't know what those words mean but either red or grey. I also use 3/32 tungsten for most everything as I'm usually welding a couple different thicknesses throughout the day and don't want to change everything out constantly. I use a standard gas lens with typically a #6 or maybe #8 cup.

 

Lot's of questions here so I'll start with what I use.

Rod: ER70S-2 .045" & 1/6" Diameter depending on the situation. Sometimes no filler.

#7 or #8 Cup with a gas lens. Sometimes smaller cups for tight spaces.

I prefer a quality brand 2% Ceriated Tungsten some might prefer Lanthinated Tungten. For thin sheetmetal (i.e. 20ga. to 16ga.) either .045" or 1/16" tungsten.

I have a Thermal Arc 185 to cover almost any job. It's a small inverter AC/DC machine that has a programable pulse which is very useful on very thin material. I'm using an "air cooled" torch which is fine for this work. A 200 amp machine is a good choice and allows you to weld thicker materials.

I don't know what gauge a "36 Ford fender was originally made from but that can be easily measured. Since they were stamped there will be areas that are thinner.

Low carbon (1018-1020) cold rolled sheet for formability and weldability.

Lift Arc is an arc starting process. I would not use it on thin material. Get a machine with a pedal for ultimate control.

Practice and clean materials are essential. Other factors like proper tungsten grinding, torch angle, arc length are also very important.

I usually run some test pieces when I encounter something I haven't done before. This helps dial in the machine settings without screwing up a good part.

There's a lot more to TIG. These are just some basics.

Watch some videos to get the basics. https://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/

 

Try the Jalopy Journal's "Garage Journal".

 

The machine you posted :
Lift tig means it doesn’t have high frequency start. Similar to scratch start.
There is no foot pedal, so the machine set and amperage stays constant at least you are not involved with variable amperage.
The tig torch has a manual gas valve that you control, manually pre flow, post flow, on and off.
It has AC capabilities for aluminum.

Basically any DC welding machine ever built can weld steel or stainless with tig process using that torch and an argon bottle.

For filler, I’ve used 1/16, 0.45 tig rod, 0.35 0.30 & 0.24 mig wire. Silicon bronze and even rebar tie wire. Stay away from coat hangers because they ain’t what they used to be.
If I’m running mig wire I’ll coil it up like a bracelet around my wrist with a capture and release as one coil needed, coiled in direction of feed helps.
The Red or Purple tungsten, in various diameters matching to amperage. I haven’t noticed much difference in which cup gets used or gas lenses on steel. Mostly because I broke my “favorite one” and grabbed another different and just kept going.

At my old shop, I had 3phase power and an old Miller tig machine. About the size of standard clothes dryer. I got a relatively cheap inverter tig/stick dc only machine 220 single phase. It’s about the size of a really big lunch box. 1/10 the weight and 5 more amps (reduced duty cycle though). It welds pretty OK but the old miller was smoother. The Air cooled lead and torch is cumbersome huge.
A water cooled torch is much smaller (amps remain equal) and a lot easier to weld with.

 

I'd be highly suspicious of those multi function machines at that pricing and origin. But hey, what do I know, they could be awesome!

If I was gambling with my money I'd be looking for a decent quality 180 or so amp, stand alone inverter based tig dc machine with button / hf start and ideally a pedal. Hear good reports on Thermal Arc and the likes. Jasic could be worth investigating.

The last, my third, purchase is intended to see me out and I was prepared to dig fairly deep about 5 years ago. Got a Lorch (German), 180a ac/dc with pedal but it was about 2500 quid (GB Pounds) and it's fabulous. I invited the vendor to upsell me to a Dynasty 200dx(?) but he refused to sell me a lesser machine for considerably more money. His words. Ymmv.

Not that I did this but there's a place in Hitchin with demonstration facilities.

You've got countless hours of practice before you should be touching you're 36 sheetmetal. Reduce those hours some if you're proficient with OA.

Chris

 

ahh,
so just buy a stand alone tig welder.....
so no to an ac dc machine
dc only - i wont do any aluminium
do not buy a 4 in one scratch or lift start.
has to have HF high frequency start.
AND
a pulse setting

$200 TIG Welder VS $2,000 TIG Welder - YouTube
so /\ that u tube video is 3 months old, the 'tech' in the machine is 'x' old, so how do i then cross that over into

 

I’ve never used pulse for anything

 

I would want to invest my money in a machine with some versatility. AC/DC gives you that even if you don't plan to do aluminum right now. HF start with a pedal gives you a lot more control. You don't need pulse but it's a nice feature.

 

HBT2000P WELDING MACHINE 200A 220V DC HF PULSE INVERTER ARC MMA TIG WELDER | eBay

dc only
hf start
with pulse
200a

 

I'm no expert, but I find on thin stuff I use wire from the mig welder for tiging steel. Or, 1/16" rod cut in half so its not so wiggly.

 

I bought one of these several yrs ago and totally happy with it. Several reviews on YouTube also.

It does more than I've needed up to this point but as I'm learning, I'm learning to use more of the machine.

https://primeweld.com/products/tig-225x-ac-dc-tig-welder

.

 

We had tradtional Millers at the shop and then switched to Lincoln Pulse units. A good weldor can make either style work. It is NOT a necessity.

 

Only thing NOT mentioned so far is welding lens.
I use a No. 10. If it hurts your eyes wear sunshades with it.
A bright light shining on your work really helps (especially if you're learning or older with poor eye sight.
3/32 tungsten......70-S2 filler wire (1/16")..... 100% Argon gas coverage...CLEAN-CLEAN-CLEAN metal....High freq start....(pulse is NOT necessary but a cute little feature to play with)...
.Foot pedal only REALLY needed for Alum welding Not carbon steel.
6sally6

 

There's a auction web site in the Seattle area (Cyber Auctions) that sometimes has used welders usually going for about 50% of new prices. I just bought a brand new Lincoln 225 Precision TIG Welder - m/n 520601-12UM complete including tax and auction fees for $2400.00 Retails for over $5000.00
tags still on it and never been pluged in. Lincoln will honor the 3 year warrenty.

 

so, i get the welder
200a
hf start
dc only
with or without pulse
-
next
argon regulator valve
Argon PrESSure Regulator YAR-88 | eBay

if you have a pure argon bottle
do you need a specific argon rregulator valve?

 

oh i get it......
.8mm mig wire is .031 inches
1.0mm mig wire is .039 inches
1.2mm
Super Steel ER 70S-2 (A15 triple deoxidised) Tig Welding Filler Rods | eBay
is .047
this begs the question, if there is tonnes of mig wire hanging about, that isnt the point, you want the specific rod ER 70s-2
as that is what is BEST
what does A15 triple deoxidised mean?
is it as it appears in as much as it will be much cleaner than a roll of mig wire.

so
- i think I get the .047 rod = 1.2mm
and the grey 2 percent ceriated tungstens
TIG Welding Tungsten Electrodes - White, Red, Grey, Black & Gold - 1.0mm - 4.0mm | eBay
the tungsten diameter needs to match the filler rod diameter?


so....
with that said, IF I am going .047 on filler rod and tungsten

 

What kind of welding supplier is near you? Talk to them.

 

Years ago I bought a 3-1 Airco machine. Came with a HF box. The heliarc function worked fine on 1/8th and 3/16ths. But couldn’t get the hang of it on sheet metal, to be honest I didn’t practice much either. No foot control, but when my ex-farther in-law was visiting (used to be a welder) we were talking about it, he told me to turn on the HF box always. What a difference, save a lot of regrinding the Tungsten.

 

0.6mm mig wire, cleaned with acetone, and 1.6 tungsten. I use the red 2% thiorated on mild and stainless steels.

Have 1.6mm tig rods around too and you'll be OK for some heavier stuff. On chassis stuff 2.4mm tungsten and 1.6mm rods can work nicely. And no, tungsten diameter doesn't have to equate to filler rod size. Tungsten size determines the power capabilities (with huge overlaps in range capabilities) but too much power into too small if a tungsten causes problems. Bigger tungsten generally means bigger weld pool. Rod size determines rate of fill required and related pool size. But it's all fluid (yeah, molten metal!) and requires experimentation and practice.

Chris

 

I taught all forms of welding for many years.
My advice to you is forget TIG welding until you can do oxygen/acetelyne welding exceptionally well.
If you learn the gas/hammer welding technique for fenders and semi flat areas, you will never need bondo or lead.

 

what is the difference between
1mm
cold rolled mild steel
and hot rolled

low carbon 1018 - 1020
does that translate to CR4?
1.0mm cold rolled cr4 steel sheet plate various sizes thin metal | eBay

 

I've been looking off and on for a few years, watching youtube, reading articles and have been pestering the group with questions. What I've learned is don't get a 3 in 1 machine (they will do all equally poor), get an ac/dc machine that will be expandable in the future (think water cooled) just in case and IF you have the room/power get a good older used non inverted machine. Since I don't have the room or the power to run one I'm heavily leaning towards getting a Primeweld TIG225X.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BXHRBQ8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A577M5EO3SKHM&psc=1


My .002

 

https://www.grobinc.com/blog/hot-rolled-steel-vs-cold-rolled-steel/

 

I knew this would get crazy.

 

I don't ask my cars what they would prefer me using, they get the Miller MIG and they'll enjoy it!

 

This is the first TIG welder I ever bought and it’s worked great so far.

https://www.everlastgenerators.com/...MImcyy-5X2_gIVltXjBx3dHwwtEAQYBSABEgI29vD_BwE

I upgraded to the better foot pedal they offer.

Always size your tungsten to the same width as the steel you are welding. Usually using 1/16” tungsten and rod for sheet metal. And if you adjust the amps to go higher than you really need, you will probably still never stomp the pedal that much anyway.