Technical 54 WCFB woes and my incompetence

Seach article " Motortrend 1954 Dodge Indy 500 pace car". First 4-barrel carb. It might be helpful.

 

some of the brightest brainiacs here suggested it because of the possibility that the dwell control of the pertronix could be compromised, and I believe that factor is made by the exciter ring distance from the pickup unit. So it’s possible that two close a distance cut the standard pertronix dwell time thus weakening higher rpm spark.

that’s my feelings on it anyhow. Because I’ve never since 2002 seen a pertronix fail in this manner.

 

Excellent write up! And you are correct there was only one unit in it when it arrived.

 

You definitely would NOT feel it’s clapped out if you were to see it run in person. Once this ignition and fuel issue is tackled it will run like any decent car. There is nothing in the physical mechanics of this engine preventing it from running as it was designed to.

 

good suggestion, but fully unnecessary. The gas is as pure as if it came out of a plastic jug right from Chevron itself. Both filters are clean and have zero sediment. That was the very first thing I looked into when this car was running like **** when it was dropped off here.

 

Yes you are correct I got about 1200 more rpm from a set of points over the pertronix.

theres sooo much to catch up on reading. Thanks folks.

 

the distributor was recurved by the best distributor guy in Washington. And yes even after points improved by 1200 rpm’s the performance, when I switched to the new coil, there was no improvement. So I won’t be switching the original coil out again during any further testing. The sixth time was enough.

 

Now that we have a rebuilt and retuned carb, a distributor that seems to be doing its job, here is my next suggestion.
One, the car needs to be driven. Not around the block or up the driveway. It needs the carbon on the back of the valves, ac***ulated when it ran poorly. It doesn't need to be flogged. Just driven at highway speed for at least 50 miles. I'd also suggest adding one if the fuel system cleaners available at the auto parts store to help with the cleaning. I like Techron, but choose what you like.
This car needs to be driven, while we are on a hold waiting for the second set of points to arrive.

 

Pprather, that’s a great idea and today is a great day to do it!

but I’m not convinced that the valves are shrouded in carbon deposits that are big enough to cause this issue. But your point is still valid, and who don’t like a nice Sunday drive with only the right hand shocks mounted on the car…. Hahahah I took the left hand shocks off yesterday to measure them so I can procure a proper replacement set.

 

The compression test results you posted in #1 vary more than the recommended 10% (low of 109 psi; high of 130 psi => 16%).

Leakdown testing is also recommended.

The valve springs were mentioned and I believe the only way to test them is with them removed.

Frankly, getting the engine running better probably increases other safety concerns, some (most?) of which I mentioned (brakes, steering, and suspension). You starting a thread on the play showing at the steering wheel seems to add weight to these concerns.

 

I own a very very tired 240,000 plus 1989 ford 300 with an AVS2 edelbrock carb, this is a 650 cfm carburetor on 300 inch motor. When I press the pedal to the floor the truck moves forward at a normal pace, it is far more worn out, but it doesn’t fall on its face in full throttle.

this car will not move forward at full throttle, that in my opinion has no factor in spring pressure of blow by or leak down.

this car is old, yes I agree. Probably wants a rebuild, sure, but there’s no reason this car should fall on its face whenever I go past half throttle from a purely mechanical point of view.

someone suggested an adapter plate and different carb. This would require several hundred bucks just for a test.
There is an answer, I just haven’t decided the message the engine is hiding completely, but with all your guy’s help it’s getting better! And I thank you.

 

Can't remember if you got an answer so ignore if you did.

1. Yes, on an 8 lobe dual point they are phased so both sets working together stay closed longer resulting in more dwell angle which provides more time to build a stronger magnetic field in the coil. This creates a hotter spark and is the performance benefit of a dual breaker point ignition.

2. The stock dual point in question has 8 lobes. A 4 lobe design provides more contact breaker stability at higher RPM because the contact breakers are opening only half as many times per shaft revolution.

The dwell angle is critical to coil performance. It'll run, but the geometry of the cam and the contact point sets are optimized for both sets.

Ignition Timing should be re checked after any adjustment of the dwell angle.

 

I always had trouble setting metering rods on WCFBs This is from old Motors manual. This adjustment must be made after the pump setting. Seat the throttle valves in their bores and loosen metering rod arm clamp screw. With metering rods in place press down on va***eter link until metering rods bottom in casting. holding rods down, revolve metering rod arm until finger on arm contacts lip of va***eter link. Hold in place and tighten clamp screw

 

Igniting timing is still 4 degrees. The dwell is 31 degrees, well within single points parameters, the ignition should run very easily to 6000 rpm’s.

dual points were created to extend the life of the points system more so than to simply increase dwell since a better built coil will handle 7000 rpm’s on a single set of points.

this carb and ignition combo currently sitting on single points, a proven good coil and the dwell time more than sufficient ‘should’ run wide open throttle without stuttering up to a minimum of 6000 rpm’s.

I have absolutely ZERO intentions of revving this motor past 4500 rpm’s.

I simply want the carburetor to work as a normal carb should at WOT. But it simply falls on its face at anything over half throttle still although it revs 1200 or so rpm’s more than before, the breakup is still there.

I am 50% confident that two points in this distributor will not change anything because plenty of single point 1950’s 6v systems can handle 3800 rpm’s without breaking up. So, by my own brains default I’ll delve into fuel emulsion theory once again, until there’s a time that this carburetor will function as normal with this ignition system.

my first problem is jetting. I removed .059 rear jets, I installed .062, according to Jon, the secondary jets should be right there, but it’s possible they’re too rich and I should drop back to the .059 and run the engine again, or jump to the .070 I borrowed yesterday and see if it wants a **** ton more fuel to run the secondary without flatlining….

mall these maybe’s and but if’s, are killing me.

To directly quote the mandalorian, yes, “This is the way”. Hahaha.

but the issue here is after 2/3rds of the primaries have already been opened. Thus ruling out the metering rods, there is no off idle stumble or part throttle leaning or over enrichment which would be a tell tale of maladjusted metering rods. The original .0925 jets aren’t available, currently it’s running .092, the jets I removed were only .080

 

Be careful not to over rev this tired engine. Original manufacturer specification has max horsepower at 4400 rpm. No value in stretching much beyond that.

 

Oh yes, that’s a good warning to heed, and I’m not actually concerned with it even revving higher than about 3600 as that is where the trans p***ing gear revs to before shifting when floored.
And therein lies the issue. It will Only reach those rpm’s on the primary Venturi.

 

If it is not an original thing I would go to an AFB not a E knock off carb.

 

With this lady it’s definitely original desires. If the second points and further jet setting don’t take care of it I’ll call Mikes and buy one of his rebuilt WCFB carbs, or Carb kings if they have one, as a last resort.

 

It’s been asked and i’m not sure it was answered, how old is the gas?

 

Fuel is new and clear.

 

FWIW I tried an aftermarket dual point with the proper Pertronix and was less than satisfied. I went to a stock distributor with the proper Pertronix and most of the time it was better but I had an occasional miss during light throttle cruise. I went to points triggering a Ford TFI module and it runs the best of the 3.

Gary

 

I tested this distributor, the insulated parts are fully insulated, and the grounds and ground wire for breaker plate is good also.

mom not confident the diatribes bad. The points are good, the condenser is good, the dwell is 31 degrees, the coil is good.

this has to be carb related.

 

Yep, that was you in your older thread (post #323).
"I ordered a carb adapter plate from summit to test my known good brand nearly new AVS2 sitting on my ford 300"
Did it not happen??? It is really the best direction at this point if you believe it is the carb that is at fault.

 

Yes and the plate is ****. The smooth running avs from my ford 300 in-line ran like dog ****, barely idled regardless of timing or A/F mixtures, ran like three crossed wires.

Put it back on my truck and ran perfect. So that didn’t pan out.

 

So, it sounds like the problem is not the carb then...................

 

The carburetor from my truck ran like **** on the car probably from vacuum leak, so wouldn’t idle right it sounded like there was three crossed wires. But it runs good on my truck because my truck has a cam in it that really likes that 650 CFM carburetor and my truck has PCV etc. other styles of vacuum loss that are calibrated to the carburetor whereas the 330 one does not have that. .

 

Obviously that 650 CFM was not a good choice for this

 

Your truck has a cabinet??? Or does it have a "cam in it"? Voice to text strikes again..........

 

There will be an answer to this problem, but it sounds like it will take some open-minded searching and testing to find it. You were absolutely spot-on in your earlier posts when you advised a thorough and systematic process of elimination, rather than a blinkered approach. I don't know what's up with it, but I sure hope we find out.
These two threads are time none of us will be getting back..........