Technical Paranoid? Lithium ion batteries

I was late coming on board to the cordless tool train. However over the past few years I have gotten a small collection of 20 volt tools. Some amaze me at how well they work. Especially the 6 1/4" circular saw with a Diablo metal cutting blade. My plasma cutter and band saws don't get quite as much use as they once did. But along with the tools come the batteries. And the fact that some fail. I know that it's a very small percentage on the global scale of things. I also know some failures result in fires. Recently a local news story was a pickup truck fire caused by an over heated cordless tool battery in a storage box in the truck bed. The tool instructions tell you that the ideal battery storage conditions are between 40 and 80 degrees F at 50% charge. Not exactly practical at times. I understand that's the ideal for best life and there is a wider range. I just completed an addition to my garage trying to separate the fabrication and ***embly areas. It would be a significant setback should anything happen to the garage. So I recently decided to buy a small flammable storage cabinet to keep my cordless tool batteries. Overkill? Paranoid? Probably, but it's something that makes me feel better.

 

I swear I seen that Cornfield Customs did a fire cabinet for all his batteries too

 

No that is a good deal....People should keep rags in a safe storage container and in the shops at the mines I worked we always had safety cabinets for garage chemicals like carb cleaner and things...You work your whole life for things and a fire will take it away in minutes...

 

most fire cabinets are designed to keep fire out not in.
logic would dictate a design not unlike an oven that could allow an inextinguishable lithium fire, of at least 3,632 degrees fahrenheit, to burn itself out

 

You are smart to be cautious with Lithium batts. When my daughter was young we had fun with RC toys. The Li batteries for those things recommended charging in purpose made bags in case of fire. After seeing videos of the fires they can cause I started using the bags religiously and not leaving them on the charger.

BTW, nice clean shop.

 

No, you're not paranoid! Just Google, Mike Nickels, Travers City Michigan and you will see his Woodie restoration shop burn to the ground with several Woodies inside. All caused by a Lithium Ion battery. Look up , bike shop fire N.Y.C. again Lithium Ion battery. If you leave one on charge, just make sure it's in some sort of fireproof container.

 

When you say paranoid are you talking about Black Sabbath or something else? He he.

 

I feel you worry, I don't have many battery powered tools either. I actually have one or two that are lithium battery powered tools. That is one of my worries since my garage with part of the house. Secondly, I hate that different brands and styles fade in and out and there are way to many options out there for battery styles. Then these items get discontinued and your stuck with a tool you can no longer use. Besides, all my work is in my garage so really don't have the need for "portability" like contractors do. Just my two cents.

 

Yes, the typical flammable storage cabinet is designed to contain paints, solvents, etc, at their burn temperature. Even oven insulation is well below that for a lithium fire. I looked around and did not stumble onto a lithium battery specific storage cabinet. Should anyone be aware of one, please post up some info. At this point I felt I wanted to do something, and certainly open to finding something better.

 

maybe build a fire brick lined pizza oven,
when it's not being used for one it can be used for the other

 

seriously though, maybe an electric kiln?
or small forge?

 

You guys are scaring me.
I had no idea lithium doesn’t need oxygen to burn and almost impossible to extinguish.
Sorry for the inaccurate info I provided on this post. I’ve deleted it.

 

Way I look at it, it doesn't matter if anyone else thinks your cautious or paranoid, if it works for you, that's all that matters.

 

lithium does not need oxygen to burn

 

recently an electric bicycle shop blew up as a result from these batteries, killed 4, others injured.
they don't have a handle on these things yet.

 

when you contain something that burns that fast and hard isn't that what you call a bomb ???

 

Flammable cabinets are vented. I guess the design differs on the origin point of the fire - inside or outside the cabinet.

 

They warn people to not put li-ion mowers inside also.

 

The metal flammable cabinet will probably get red hot and catch the wall on fire. You would need something designed to handle the combustion heat like the forge until it burned itself out. I do not know the chemical make up of a lithium fire but if it is like any other fire you take away 1 element of the fire triangle oxygen heat fuel to extinguish the fire. So unless they generate oxygen you could seal in an airtight container to prevent combustion but I would think there still needs to be some degree of insulation that can take heat because it will generate a lot of it even if it does not catch fire.

 

Yes, at this point I don't think that I have the final solution. I posted to get the inputs of the knowledge here. More often than not, it's version 2.0 or 3.0 that gets it done.

 

Now, I'm hungry for a cheese and pepperoni pizza..

 

Yes they do.
That's why electric cars with batteries the size of a matress are so dangerous. And the fumes given off, including from cobalt, are hyper toxic.

 

It reminds me of how things were when cars were first coming out, all the different options for fuels and what not. Granted I don't recall anything that behaved like this, but I think diesel was proposed as an option to avoid how combustible gasoline was? Either way, it'll get figured out, either with ways to extinguish it easier, or a battery design that isn't as combustible.

 

Hi. In the past I have been a Dangerous Goods by Air shipper, compliant to ICAO/IATA and CFR49. Li-ion, both primary (non rechargeable) and secondary (rechargeable) were the focus but I shipped everything except radionuclides.

Number 1, get the correct li-ion fire extinguisher. Li-ion fires are hard to put out. Water ain't doing it. I've seen the aftermath of the local FD having to carry a work bench outside a building because they couldn't out out an li-ion fire. They let it burn out in the parking lot (!).

I would say the biggest cause of accidental fire with rechargeable li-ion is that people get cavalier and sloppy with them. Example: toss an li-ion battery, its charger, and some random tools in a bag. The li-ion gets shorted across its contacts by say a pair of pliers, it overheats, and burns.

I would recommend carefully protecting the contacts of the li-ion in storage, at all times. They are actually safer installed in equipment, as the equipment has an on-off switch that protects the circuit.

 

Thanks Paul. I had no idea. I’ve deleted that info. Sorry.

 

Things that put Lithium -ion and Lithium batteries out.

 

Far be it for me to criticize those firefighters, but as a retired firefighter, s.o.p. in any smoke condition is air masks. Why those guys **** up that smoke for a tractor fire is just plain stupid! Risk the health of your lungs for that type of fire is unacceptable. Their officer needs a reprimand.

 

I’ll buy the pizza, extra grease okay? You bring the beer!

 

We had a light plant at work catch fire. No lithium that I’m aware of. Regular battery for diesel engine starting, a generator, some sort of ballast box for the sodium/whatever lights. A 150 lb fire suppression tank put it out, almost. it flared back up, so a heavy hitter was called in, in the form of a D11 dozer, it buried the light plant. Problem solved.

 

no, - just wise !
A lot of great information here, well worthy of discussion, as most now use some battery powered hand tools in there workshops.