Technical Stude Pickup Warehouse Find

Hey, Bob;
Since the pan is down, was gunky, & you're in there anyways... , you may as well see how gunked-up the inside of the block is. & s****e n clean that area out too. The fun of old motors & old oils. . Hopefully, most of the gunk slid down into the pan.
Marcus...

 

Bob, have you thought about notching the pan, sorta like the early Chevy II V8 pans were made? They had a large half moon where the steering cross link traveled.

 

The inside of the block doesn't have any s****e-able sludge, it's just covered in dirty oil. Now the oil pump and windage tray are another story. I will do some cleaning in there.
And yes, I'm going to re-think how the pan and the tie-rod are modified. I don't think there is any room to be gained with the pan, the oil pump and pickup are right there. So, I may have to modify the tie-rod for some extra clearance and build the new pan to fit.
With the info from the machine shop, I was able to order an engine kit for the '62 389 from Northern today. The crank .010-.010 but the block had to go to .060 to clean up some rust in a couple cylinders. Not a big deal for the older blocks.
"Oh, it's just a little surface rust", yeah, right. Be careful out there, buy low, the parts you get might just be s****.
I'm still looking for another set of '59-'60 heads.
I thought this was cool, I thought it was just Pontiac advertising speak from back then....

 

I put the tie-rod back on and took some critical measurements with the steering full left, full right and centered. Now I see what room I have to work with. I also marked up the tie-rod, top, front and some of the angles. I should be able to build a bench fixture to fix the critical locations if I decide to modify it,
and it looks like I will.

I pulled the oil pump and gave it a preliminary cleaning. It has a swinging pickup.

 

Bob, I was thinking. I know that can be dangerous.... but my thought is about your off idle miss. It might be a slightly burnt valve. Don't recall if you did compression test, that should show a lower cylinder if it is. It will still run fine, just has that weak cylinder that isn't a full miss, but more noticeable at light throttle.

On your oil pan, instead of trying to move the tie rod, why not extend the pan out the sides? Like a road race style pan, it would give more capacity. Just an idea if you get into pan welding.

 

I agree. I also thought it might just be a weak valve spring or two. The compression numbers look very good for a well worn engine that slept for 50 years. If it continues to run reasonably well I’m planning on replacing the valve springs and valve stem seals. It might help valve sealing and head off finding pieces of old umbrella seals in the oil pan.
I opened the idle mixture screws a half turn just to see if it would help and it did, so it might need a little more fuel in the transition. Maybe shift the accelerator pump shot a little later or make it longer.
On the oil pan, I could kick out the p***enger’s side but the other side is tight with the starter. I ordered a new pan with no paint or plating, if it looks good I’ll just make a nicer version of the existing pan. It is significantly deeper than stock so I don’t think that the volume is the issue that I thought it was.
Thanks for the input, I can use all the help I can get.
Oh yeah, my registration hit a snag, the DMV didn’t accept the weight certificate. The registration gal is trying to get it through but I might have to take it to a different weigh station which I won’t be able to do until I get the truck back together. I’ve used this weigh station twice before with no problem, different DMV person, different level of scrutiny, I guess. It’s always something.

 

Hey, Bob;
To add a quart extra capacity to the pan, in '57 Olds just welded an oil filter housing onto the non-starter side. Worked well. I suppose you could deepen the pan front->rear, then cut & sleeve a hole thru that's big enough for the tie rod to work correctly? Would rather **** if the pan, engine, & maybe the tierod has to come out, but iirc, it was popular(esp in/&/by Herbert n Meeks era) for some chevII engine swaps, as well as other engine swaps, esp when done in non-mainstream cars or using "odd" engine/car combos.
If you need a large bottomed pan, Stude used a decent one you could graft together w/a poncho. Either the v8 truck or CK, just don't remember. Should be cheap enuf... .
Marcus.

 

Yeah, I was surprised when I dug out a sbc pan and put them side by side, the Pontiac is significantly wider. I will have three pans to mess with, I ordered a new raw pan off eBay. Two are stuck in sandblasting jail and the new one is in the mail so I’ve been cleaning the oil pump and pickup. I got the block s****ed and cleaned today.
I considered ordering a new oil pump and pickup but the old one has good pressure and I will have to modify the pickup adding to the To Do list. The new engine will get the new pump.
I found a chunk of 3/4” plate that I can use to modify my tie rod if I decide to go down that road. I’ll do the figuring and make the patterns but I won’t cut the tie rod until I’m sure.
With no oil pans to work on I think I might take some time this weekend to work on my red coupe, get it cleaned up and see if I fixed the intermittent in the ignition.

 

Progress… My new eBay oil pan arrived (my old ones are still at the sandblasters). I modified it to work with a “dropped” tie rod. I had to take out the baffle, do the modification, bead blast the welded area and then weld the baffle back in. I did the modifications with it bolted to the ‘62 block so that I could use a stock oil pump and pickup and keep the flange from warping. With advancing age and diminishing eyesight I had trouble trying to weld the sheet metal. I ended up using good old Oxy-acetylene. Done. The oil pump is a new stock replacement Sealed Power from Rock Auto.
I got the pan back on without any major drama, I did have to perform a little last minute body work on the pan so it wouldn’t sit on the front crossmember. It’s a “fits all” pan and the front was a little deeper than the old one.

The reconstructed tie rod fit fine, but in hindsight I doglegged it more than I needed to. I used a late Corvette sway bar as a donor for the new center. It’s about .050” larger in diameter. There’s about 10” of TIG weld on each end, no trouble welding the thick stuff all comfortable at my welding bench. New tie rods are available and they aren’t too expensive so I might build another one someday when the old one wears out or if it bugs me enough. It works fine but it hits the oil pan just as it reaches full lock, just like the old one did. I thought I gave it more clearance….
Warmed up and idling, the new oil system has 65 lbs at idle, 70 driving down the road. It drives fine, just like before.
I didn’t take much in the way of pictures during all of this, I guess I was in full concentration mode and not thinking about it. I’ll get an after shot and post it later

 

I forgot, I got my registration and license plates yesterday!! I called the insurance lady. I’m good to go. It’s 105 outside right now, I might take it out later or wait until the morning. First time out of the neighborhood.
After 50 years, it finally returns to fun daily driver status…. It’s about time!

 

Bob...so happy for you...your determination paid off. No luck on that EP4B intake I saw though...ill keep an eye out for you..

 

Oh, you are so going to need help erasing that smile from your face... Hope that doesn't hurt too much, or too long. .
Marcus...

 

nice work Bob.... keep the updates coming.. take care

 

Thanks Ron, and thanks for trying with the manifold.
I’m still ****in’ around with it trying to get it to run better. I got another center carb and I ordered a kit for it. We’ll see if that changes anything. It will be good to be able to drive it more. I’m sure everything will work a little better after I put some normal driving miles on it.
The new engine is coming along. The machine shop has all the parts to balance it. I just deburred the block, s****ed and poked inside the water jackets and took it back for final piston fit and another cleaning.
When I ordered the engine kit from Northern, I upgraded to a Comp 262 cam but Northern provided the lifters, not Comp Cams brand. I’m guessing that they have sold plenty of these kits, some with the same unmatched combination of cam and lifters but it makes me wonder. Should I shop for different lifters or just use the ones provided?

 

Awesome Bob! Almost at the finish line

 

If you want to have any hopes at all of having any warranty coverage from Northern, use the lifters that they recommend. Keep your receipts and retain all the packaging. Ask them what to use for break-in oil and ***embly lube and buy it from them if possible. Shoot some video of the ***embly process and the initial start up and run-in. You can't have too much do***entation.

If you'd have to deal directly with Comp Cams for any warranty issues then follow the same procedures, buying any recommended oil or lube from them if possible. Follow their recommendations and do***ent everything you can.

 

I bought Northern’s recommended ***embly lube that I will probably use on the bearings but I’ve always used Isky Rev-Lube on cam lobes, lifters, and rocker arm balls. I will probably stick with my tried and true method.
I can only recall losing one cam and it was a slightly used Isky with new lifters. I figure that I probably overlooked a small scuffed spot or something.

 

Pictures of the new pan, as promised. (Note the oil on the trans pan)

Impromptu hammer work to clear the crossmember….

Looks like the rear main seal has been a major contributor to the oil slick that usually appears under the truck all along. Now that the oil pan and transmission are sealed up, the final leak is exposed. I won’t be fixing that one. The new engine will fix it, hopefully.

 

The day I’ve been waiting over a year for, that first drive to the gas station.

First impression? It’s gonna need some work, still….
It’s funny that the thing that I was most concerned about, the transmission, is the thing that performs the best! It drives ok, I think it needs an alignment with additional caster to help it tack a little better on the highway. The rear is a little stiff, typical early ‘50s pickup. The brakes need a little help, maybe a 7/8” master cylinder instead of the 1”.
The engine ran smoothly at speed but it idles erratically, like it would stall if I let it sit and idle. It ran at 180 degrees for the whole 15 mile drive. Towards the end of the drive, on the worst, bumpiest stretch of road, the oil pressure was all over the map, from 35-65 lbs. No idea what that was about, debris in the relief valve? Oil slosh? It has a baffle in the pan, a windage tray and six quarts of Castro High Mileage coursing through it.
Doesn’t matter, with the rear main seal leaking like it does, I’m going to have to pull the engine and trans eventually anyway. For now, I’ll just drive it and tinker with it (and keep a drip pan under it).
I’m just happy to be able to drive it, it does turn heads, even in our truck infested locale.

 

Looks good Bob!!

 

Thanks. I’m sure glad to have an old truck in the herd again.

 

Looks great setting at the station. Nothing beats driving them down the road.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I’m hoping that putting some miles on it will help it run better. I love seeing old cars out running around, does my heart good. I’ve gotta take it over to my buddy Jim’s place. I’m hoping it will motivate him to get his old Chevy pickup on the road, it’s almost the same color and it’s so close to running but he got sidetracked.
It was 110 out today so I spent the day in the shop with the A/C on cleaning and putting away my tools and starting to clean up an alternate center carburetor. I need to pull the spark plugs and see what they look like now that it actually went somewhere.

 

I’ve started a valve spring search. They are 1 3/8” OD, 1.98” long in natural state. The ‘62 heads have dual springs, (not an outer and a damper), .800 ID on the inner springs. I’m not sure about the ‘59 engine in the truck. I might just take the springs from the ‘62 heads to the machine shop and check them.
I didn’t see any 1 3/8 OD springs searching the internet, mostly 1.25 and 1.550. Some 1.303 beehives for LS applications. I think I’ll call Tony at Ross and see what he has. Most stock replacement suppliers I looked at are showing “out of stock”. Some high dollar racing springs showed up but that’s overkill.

 

right on Bob....got out to a drive...I 'm sure you will get it sorted out . Congrats

 

Glad you are getting to drive it! Looks great!

 

So good to see this one going down the road! You must have a great sense of accomplishment. Although I avoid conflict online, I'll risk this much as I feel compelled to take note of your oil choice. Maybe you've had good luck with Castrol in old flat tappet cars, but I'm ***uming you haven't dove into the oil zinc content rabbit hole. I know this topic is crazy debatable, so I fear creating a **** storm, but I'd hate to see that old Poncho start ticking with a failed lifter. I have used Castrol in late model stuff for decades, as it has been developed for modern car engines, but on my old school flat tappet stuff, I'm all in with Valvoline VR-1, silver bottle. It works well in my Willys' 289. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck with the project!

 

Don’t worry, it won’t be in there very long, I’m still in the flush mode with the engine and transmission. I just happened to find six quarts at Dollar General cheap. I’ll be changing it after I get a few heat cycles on everything. It’s easier to get some time on it now that I can go off the ranch.

 

Getting a chance to take the old Stude out on the highway also gave me a chance to get a plug reading and it wasn’t good.

That explains the ****py idle, too much fuel. But why? It’s running on a stock Rochester 2bbl, the end carbs are blocked off with aluminum plates. So off comes the carb and on goes the spare center carb. It wouldn’t idle at all. Take your foot off of the gas pedal and it just stalled. Hmm, something wrong with that one too. I didn’t see anything wrong when I opened it up and blew everything out. Off it came.
Who knows how many hands have molested these carburetors and what bad choices were made. Looking for a little insight, I revisited Carbkings website and did some heavy reading. The very best solution would be to give him the numbers and let him supply a kit with exactly the correct parts and gaskets for these carbs, but I’m basically impatient and I have a bunch of Rochester 2G parts (plus I’m a glutton for punishment) so…
Gaskets vary from model to model and I just put back the same as what I took out. But, one version of the body-to-base gasket seals off the throttle bores individually and completely while the other provides a built-in air leak from the outside. I’m way rich, so I opted for the gasket with slots to let in air.
I put it all back together and…. no improvement. Hmmm.

So I went to the 4th of July BBQ at my wife’s sister’s house. By the time I crawled into bed I had decided that the only thing that it could be is the power valve, but there’s not much to them to go haywire. I got out my selection of power valves and noted something odd, all of them except for the one from my original carburetor had a stem protruding an equal amount. The one from my carb looked short. I’m guessing that the internal spring collapsed or rusted and broke.

I put in the power valve from my spare carburetor, rechecked the float settings and put everything back together. After the usual adjustments, it runs perfectly. The mixture screws are responsive, it will smoothly idle down, great throttle response. Idle vacuum at 16-18.
Wadda ya know. It was that silly little thing all along. Until I put the power valve side by side with others it seemed ok, it worked freely and sprung back when pushed in. Live and learn.