Technical Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam Lubrication @ Assembly?

It has been so long since I installed a flat tappet camshaft, I am wondering what lubrication you guys are using in this day and age?
I am building an SBC 327 for a friend. He wants a flat tappet cam, so we called Mike Jones Cams and got one custom ground for this combination. He didn't send any recommendations with the cam. It is Saturday night, and I am getting ready to install the cam. I always just use ***embly lube on the roller cams I have been using for 30+ years. Is that acceptable now in these days of failed flat tappet cams and lifters? We also bought the hydraulic lifters from Jones, so everything should be copacetic there.
I want to give this cam and lifter set every chance to live that I can.
So, what are you using for cam lube?

 

Get a cam lube made for that. Many brands to choose from. And depending on the profile consider break in valve springs. A bit of a pain, but if you really want to do everything you can to make it successful you might have to go there.

 

Before even ***embling the valve train,
Check every lifter on a flat piece of gl*** to see if the face is ground on a radius [it should "rock" slightly]

I have purchased new sets [from USA parts suppliers] and found a couple didn't have a radius.
Quality control is lacking here.

 

This is a pretty mild cam with 1.25" single springs. I know there are a few things you can do such as remove the inner spring on a dual spring setup. You also can install 1.3:1 ratio rocker arms. This cam and spring setup will only give 110# closed. If it is going to live, it should live with the current setup.

 

Agreed, although this is still only half of the issue. You have the issue of the quality of the metal in the lifter itself, as well as the lobe taper on the camshaft have to be in specification as well.

I just went through this; I inspected each lifter, ensured that the crown was present. Even sent back ones that did not have enough “rock”. Verified the lifter spun in the bore, used correct break in lube, pre lubed motor, etc etc. Still had 3 failed lifters breaking in a camshaft YESTERDAY.

OP, I would honestly NOT recommend hydraulic flat tappet lifters currently. Quality control is out the window, and it’s a complete gamble if it will last.

 

Yes. I have already had them on a mirror. They all seem to have about the same amount of rock.

 

I use mild performance hydraulic and factory solid lifter designs, and use Moly Lube liberally on all surfaces, lobes and lifters. I use what comes with the cam, and the lube sold at the parts store, as well as adding cam break in lube. I use a cheap oil in the pan, Walmart, or parts store house brand, as I am dumping it all in 30 minutes. None of my cams have required double springs, so I have no issue with pressure. I have done it this way since my first engine in the 80s , and have never lost a cam, last one I did in January 2022. I add a zinc additive afterwards at every oil change.

 

All great advice above. I 've used Comp cams lube in the past (solid flat tappet but with lighter springs). Isky Rev Lube is probably a good choice. Use a good organic motor oil like Valvoline racing oil with at least 1200 ppm ZDDP for the break in and then dump it and the filter right after break in. I hear Gibbs offers Driven break in oil that supposed to be pretty good.

 

Also insure that each lifter rotates in its bore before adding pushrods. Another cause of a lobe going flat.

 

Mike Jones has a SUPERIOR reputation for custom grinding cams......
I would second guess Comp or some of the other big names before Mike's QC.
Like the rest sez...break-in lube on the lobes and lifter face...add zinc to the "throw-away oil" and
'Let-it-rip-tater-chip'!
6sally6

 

Isky rev lube ,Lucas break in oil

 

Sorry about your luck. Yeah, I know. I'm crossing my fingers and toes. I have read tons of horror stories. As I said, I haven't used a flat tappet cam in any of my stuff in more than 30 years. I tried to talk my buddy into a roller cam. He just wasn't going for it. I warned him several times and then warned him again. Of course, I tried to get him to use aluminum heads and roller rockers too. But no go.
I'm sure not every new flat tappet cam sold goes flat, so I guess I'll do everything I can and then we'll just roll the dice. I sure don't want to have to do this twice! Never had one go flat, don't want to start now.
I hope this thing lives. It should be a pretty snappy little 327 bored+.040" and decked .010". Forged small journal crank with L79 pistons. New Summit iron heads, 2.02/1.6 with 165cc intake and 72cc Vortech style chambers. 10.03:1 CR with .026 Mahle head gasket. Edelbrock RPM manifold with a QFT SL 600 VS carburetor. With this Jones cam I figure this thing should be pretty close to the old L79 327/350HP. That ought'a make his 2700# '37 Chevy coupe motivate pretty good.

 

Mike Jones grinds his own cams in North Carolina. I could hear the cam grinder running in the background on the phone. He has a very good reputation. That's why I bought his cam and lifter set. I figure he has the right taper to match the crown in his supplied lifters, but yeah, I know he doesn't build his own lifters and don't know who does make them for him. I hope I don't have to ask.

 

Use the moly lube (moly disulfide, MoS2) stuff on the lobes and lifter faces. It is the dark grey color stuff and is kind of thick consistency so it stays on and won't drip off after ***embly and before break in. Also try to get it started quick and get the revs up 2500 or so to get good splash oiling and lifter rotation. As many suggested, use a dedicated break in oil if you can.

 

Jones uses the above, Penn Grade 30 wt. Break In, no additives. His components are the best bet for flat tappet setup.

 

x2 on Rev Lube https://pitstopusa.com/i-5082181-is...IEEJf4lyMuiuvwaEqXKbiNWeo-665dtoaAtvsEALw_wcB

 

Thanks. Yes. And really compe***ive imho on price with any of the majors! The cam my buddy had picked out from Comp was $216. The cam from Mike Jones was $287. We could have spent more than that on a Comp cam. And still not had the best cam for the application. For $70, we got a cam custom designed for my buddy's specific combination. I think that $70 for Mr. Jones's knowledge was well spent.
I don't know why more people don't use these custom cam designers. Maybe people are thinking the service is a lot more expensive than it really is. There are several out there with very good reputations.
I have custom cams from another designer in a 355 and a 383 SBC. Believe me, they rip!

 

I put 110% trust in Terry^^^^^^^ he is an actual Metalurgist

 

Thank you. Will any moly disulfide paste do? Or do you have a particular brand in mind? I only need enough for one cam. This engine will sit until winter for installation and then spring before getting driven. I have been using Permatex Ultra Slick for putting my roller motors together. But I wouldn't want to let it sit too long before running it. That stuff runs off and will leave a puddle on the floor. It doesn't say anywhere that it has moly disulfide in it either. This motor will sit for at least 5 or 6 months.

 

I don't want to sidetrack the OP's post, but there have been threads of late that seek advice on ***embly and break-in of new cams and lifters, with great advice given by the subsequent posters. While I understand the need for a super slippery lube for the cam bearings, something I haven't seen addressed is the lubricity balance for the lifter FACES. The idea is to make the lifter rotate against the cam lobe which includes a low friction interface on the OD of the lifter and its bore. Molybdinum Disulfide is a very slippery substance, and I'm wondering if the use of it on the cam lobe might inhibit lifter rotation(???), thus leading to a worn lifter face and cam lobe. Might not be an issue, but maybe someone here knows the FACTS about this (rather than suppositions or old wives' tales).
Thanks!
Back to regular programming...

 

Isky says use Moly paste , I use moly paste , no argument necessary , no supposition required .

 

My last cam was a Lunati FT and came with a tube of lube. Back in the day, good speed shops threw you a tube of cam lube when you bought a cam. I use Permatex Ultra Slick for the rest of the ***embly, it really stays where you put it. The Dart heads and intake came with a tube of ARP lube, good stuff.

-I have never lost a cam, must be my non-Irish good luck. Make sure the engine will run for the entire break in. I used VR1 10w-30 the last time, you want the oil to flow immediately. I go conservative on the lash. Dump the oil and filter, after new stuff is put in, I adjust the valves with it running.

 

After you carefully apply the moly paste, install the cam and lifters, then set the valve lash , prime the engine with new oil, how much of that paste is actually still sticking the cam and lifters? A moderate cam with 130-140 lbs. seat pressure is going to wipe that paste off in one swipe I would think. The correct engine oil is going to be more important for the initial startup than any cam and lifter goop.

 

Isky moly "paste" may appear to wipe off, but is present in the pores of the metal, I actually work the paste into the lifter face and cam lobe with my thumb. Providing the lifter bore clearance is about .0015", and the lobe taper across the nose of cam, along with the convex of the lifter face causes the lifter too rotate. A lubricant will not prevent that rotation. You can measure the cam taper with a micrometer, about .002" , from one end of cam lobe to other,the convex is visible with the eye with a straight edge across the bottom face with a bright light behind as you look.

 

RmK, while the lube may not be a thou or so around the entire cam lobe, I'd guess it's still there across the face and just like points lube in a distributor, is caught on the lifter face and smeared during rotation.

 

I have a bottle of Lucas ***embly lube, high zinc content, says for cam & lifters right on it.

 

Both things are essential. The paste keeps everything happy as new surfaces wear into each other. There is a lot of localized pressure to contend with. The right oil has to flow immediately. Any engine builder I talk to is supers***ious as heck about what oil they use or recommend.

 

Speaking of lifter rotation. I learned something about flat tappet cams. Just for a mock up, I stabbed the cam in there and installed the new lifters. I gooped the cam and lifters with ***embly lube. I made sure every lifter was able to turn freely in its bore. Then turned the cam by hand to check the induced rotation. The lifters didn't rotate. Kinda scared me. So, I put a little finger pressure on each lifter as I turned the cam. The lube must have been cushioning the lifters because I could actually feel the rotation. I always thought the lifter rotation was a continuous rotation. it's not. The rotation occurs when the lifter is near the nose of the lobe, and it is a definite rotational "kick". You can actually feel it kick.

 

Rotella or Delo 15/40.. diesel grade engine oils have a high shear and high load capability. Shear additive resists oil being wiped off the lobe, high load means it won’t squeeze out under pressure.

High dollar racing oil? Pfft, why pay for the same qualities when it’s m*** produced?